HV20 versus DVX100B

Piero,

This is helpful and appreciated. Does the same sd vs. hd observation hold true for, say the HVX200 or HX-A1? - Namely does shooting in 24fps mode in standard look a bit more film-like than in hd? If this is the case, rather than obsolete the dvx100a/b might still retain great value for those indie filmakers who want most bang for their buck (shooting in 24p standard mode).

I see dvx100b for sale brand new from a merchant i know and trust for about 2,700 (has hvx driven down merchant dvx prices this much?) I also see hvx on ebay for 3,500 brand new in box from power sellers with 97-98% feedback - they are USA/NTSC, brand new, and appear to include all accessories and, most importantly the ENTIRE CAMERA.

(Having said, my entire computer will likely need immediate replacement for the hvx)

Does my instinct to get the HV20 and learn to solve my shooting challenges creatively while building my lenses, equipment, tripods lights etc and editing package make sense rather than spending extra 2 grand for dvx100b? Or will I instead regret not buying more camera?

I know this is personal but I have about 7 grand total, live from prod gig to prod gig (usually office P.A./ secretary etc.) and in L.A.. Also if the dvx - hvx divide is significant, how long can I benefit from dvx without same buyers remorse/need for hvx?

Does HV20 allow me to attach quality lenses and achieve an indie film look for say a rom-com and not just a slasher flick that will, all other elements in place, survive a blow-up onto a big screen?

I see on blogs, msg boards, like dvinfo.net that folks are selling their dvx's and buying hv20's.

In a nutshell for wide genre indie filmmaking with big screen as goal is value of dvx100b 3x's that of hv20. 2x's better or a bit closer to call? Does the hv20 easily accomidate lenses (and at what prices) to make up for wide angle, zoom, and/or depth of field advantages of dvx?

Thanks again for your awesome feedback Piero!

Take a look at the Canon XH A1.

It gives you the all the great stuff of the HV20 like the capabilities of 24fps, plus SD/HD recording and much more with 20x optical zoom. It would be considered as the "cats ass" for an entry-mid pro level camcorder for the price range of $3000. The Canon XH A1 also has 3-CCD technology which in my opinion is superior over CMOS, but it doesn't mean that CMOS can't produce. I am mentioning this because of the different league we have just entered in. If you were going to buy an interchangeable lens of 20x for this caliber of cam you could be looking at around $1000.



Canon XH A1 specs:

General
Video input type
Camcorder

Optical sensor size
1/3 in

Optical sensor type
3CCD

Min illumination
0.4 LyX

Image effects
Skintone, Black & White

Image stabilizer
Optical

Digital scene transition
Black fader, White fader

Min shutter speed
1/3 sec

Max shutter speed
1/16000 sec

Shooting modes
Digital photo mode

Shooting programs
Low light, Spotlight

White balance
Custom, Presets, Automatic

Exposure modes
Manual, Program, Automatic, Shutter-priority, Aperture-priority

Flash type
None

Widescreen video capture
Yes

Lens System
Lens aperture
F/1.6

Optical zoom
20 x

Lens system type
Zoom lens

Min focal length
4.5 mm

Max focal length
90 mm

Auto focus
TTL contrast detection

Filter size
72 mm

Equivalent 35mm focal length
32.5 - 650 mm

Manual focus
Manual, Automatic

Min focus range
0.8 in

Zoom adjustment
Manual, Motorized drive

Memory / Storage
Media type
Mini DV (HDV)

Image storage
JPEG 1920 x 1080, JPEG 1440 x 1080, JPEG 640 x 480

Flash memory
16 MB - SD Memory Card

Viewfinder / Display
Display type
LCD display - TFT active matrix - 2.8 in - Color

Display form factor
Rotating

Display resolution
207,000 pixels

Viewfinder color support
Color

Audio Input
Audio input type
Microphone

Microphone type
Built-in

Microphone operation mode
Stereo

Expansion / Connectivity
Connections
1 x Headphones, 1 x Microphone, 1 x IEEE 1394 (FireWire/i.LINK), 1 x Composite video/audio (input/output), 1 x Control-L (LANC), 1 x DC power input

Expansion slots
1 SD Memory Card

Cables included
1 x A/V cable, 1 x Component video cable, 1 x DC coupler cable

Additional Features
Video input features
Contrast control, Sharpness control, Accessories hot shoe, Backlight compensation, RGB primary color filter, Analog to digital conversion with pass through

Remote control
Remote control - Infrared

Included accessories
Lens hood, Camcorder shoulder strap

Power
Power supply included
Power adapter + battery charger - External

Physical Characteristics
Width
6.4 in

Depth
13.8 in

Height
7.4 in

Weight
4.7 lbs

If you are are comparing the HV20 vs the DVX100B, there is a problem with that. its like comparing a car to a truck., but the truth is this:

If you want to put on a show in front of clients and impress them the DVX100B is fine, but if you still want the high performance for the bigest bang for your buck, then the HV20 will do the job.

Interchangeable lenses are the best to use over conversion lenses because they were mathematically engineered to function at its best on their own. The same goes for any non-interchangeable lens, they were designed to work best on their own with out adding any convertersion lenses.

When you get in a cam system that has the versatility to interchange lenses in the high end pro level, then you are talking big bucks and not worth your cause according to your budget. A good fixed zoom lens will be fine for now.

As far as renting goes, you it shouldn't be a problem with getting a hold of one in a big city.

Cam equip rentals at a few hundred dollars at a time for each mini production can add up real quick towards buying one, but the good thing about rentals is that you can right off a 100% as an expense. Whereas buying one becomes a tax right over a few years in most cases.

If you are going to add conversion lenses to cam, I would recommend one that is specifically designed for your cam or at least a Hi Def/high quality conversion lens that is available to have the best depth-of-field and sharpness.

Film simulation filters for video can work well on their own and in combination with 24fps, sometimes you need to conduct a shoot test to see what works best for your movie projects.

My cam records in digital SD and I personally really like the look of it as its just fine on its own with out any filters. It has more of a natural feel to the picture than analog video ever did. Plus, there is allot you can do in post production, so I would rather keep the filters away when shooting my original footage so I am not stuck with the effect later.

Telephoto and wideangle conversion lenses generaly cost from $20-$300.

So for the high quality ones you would be looking at around in the $150-$200 range for the HV20, and closer to around $300-$400 for the pro style camcorders. The telephoto lenses are more critical.

Hey Richie.
Is there any final response required to conclude this question.

Thanks!

Hey Richie.
Is there any final response required to conclude this question.

Thanks!

Hey, Richie.
I don't normally just fire away my answers back like this as this thread is going in many directions, so I need to go and answer other questions that are banging at my door right now.

Is there anything else,

Thanks!

Richie.
Just select any answer to conclude to question, you can always still ask more. I will be happy to respond.

Thanks in Advance

I own both.

My thought is: the DVX has better color rending and handles motion a lot better. The lens that comes native also is a much better lens. Thus I think the DVX footage looks better-- unless you're definitely playing back in HD, planning to project a very large image in HD on a projector, or are going to spend hundreds on a DOF lens converter. Occasionally this flip flops-- low light, the DVX performs far better, in shady outdoors, the HV30/HV20 looks better in some cases, depending on the color and level of motion. DVX has WAY better sound capabilities. If you're making video for home televisions and the web, I would definitely prefer the DVX.