Any 43mm size lens will work, I think.

I think Canon annouced a WD-H43 that is dedicated for the HD20. This is probably a better product than the WD-43. I suppose 'H' means high quality/definition.

Hi, Geoffrey.
Just checking to see how your conversion lens is working. Do you need any further advice on your original question, if you do just ask, we be glad to offer more free advice, or select best response to close question. There seems to be many answered questions still open, I don't know why.

Thanks!

Hi again, Geoffrey.
As a professional photographer and videographer, my professional opinion of the HV-43 lens is, the HV-43 lens OK!, and will do the job for the HV20. I believe this the answer you were looking for.

I apologize for over advising you!

Piero Foto

Hey Andy.
That will work with decent results.

The truth is, any conversion lens that can be threaded on the HV 20 or any consumer camcorder will work. Higher quality optical conversion lenses for consumer camcorders are usually in the price range $100-$300 dollars. They offer better outer edge optical sharpness for depth of field which is more critical for telephoto lenses. Depending on your use, a $30-$70 conversion lens can also do the job, so you don't need to waist your money for general hobbyists use. Unless you have extra cash to burn.

The brighter the shooting lighting conditions, the less the difference there is between high quality and a low quality conversion lenses because when the iris closes to a smaller opening, the extra depth of field makes up for its weakness. The conversion lenses that have multi coated optics have the edge for little more refined color, no matter the price range.

Andy.
If you are selling your lens, try posting it on Amazon.

amazon.com/gp/feature.html/... 

What if I need to add filters on top of the wide angle? The WD-H43 43mm has no No Front Filter Thread! Any suggestions?

Hi, r carroll.
Yes it does, The HV20 features a microphone terminal for attaching an external microphone. The audio/video terminal doubles as a headphone terminal for monitoring sound while recording. The HV20 also offers manual audio level adjustment, giving the user precise control.

Piero Foto

Actually, the AV and the headphone share the same port... you can indeed monitor the external mic with headphones at the same time with the Canon HV20, but you have to remember to set the default of AV out to headphone mode.

Depending on the software you are referring to, but yes, latest versions of, say, Pinnacle Movie Studio 10 does have HD support. Your mileage may vary on it, but according to the product summary:

"Studio 10.5 and higher can import the following video file formats with the allowable extensions for each format noted in parenthesis:

• AVI Files - (.avi)
• MPEG Files - MPEG-1, MPEG-2 SD & HD, and MPEG-4 - (.mpg, .mpeg, .mod, .mp2, .mp4, .m1v, .m2v)
• WMV Files - (.wmv)
• DIVX SD - (.avi)
• .MOD (JVC Everio cameras) - (.mod)
• 3GPP Files - (.3gp)

Some of these formats require the latest free update to Studio 10."

I have pinnacle studio 10:5 and the Canon hv20. However my computer does not recognize the connection.
There is no display anywhere telling me that the camera is connected. Any ideas?

Hey, Documentary Maker.
First, I would like to so say you made a very good choice with the HV20, secondly, its nice to see someone give a detailed question as yours. Most digital questions on this site are barley even completed, and they say one thing but mean something else.

The 24p feature as you already know gives you a slightly different look and feel simulating film on your video. What's the big deal, well, for a number of reasons its just as important to set the feel and mood of your recorded coverage as the coverage content itself. Movies, Documentaries, and TV series seem to be more successful with a film texture. Game shows, informative videos, and talk shows seem to more better with a studio video look. Wild life like national geographic now seems to be presented very nicely with an HD vivid video look. I have found TV sitcoms are most successful when they have a film look to them, they seem to be taken more seriously. In the earlier days every TV program was generally shot in film, then when studio video broadcast became more main stream, the film looking format still seemed to be more successful. If programs like Hillstreet Blues, Cheers, Star Trek, or Seinfeld was recorded in a studio video look, it would have never been taken as seriously and would have not successfully lasted as along. Think about it, Sopranos in a studio video look, it would have cheapened the look, it just wouldn't of work.

For documentaries, I highly recommend the 24p frame rate. You can mix the 24p & 30p frame rate together, but your video look you present has to be justified to the message you are trying say. Even though your final edited version may all play back at 30p frame rate, the original look of 24p should still remain the same. Depending on your editing software and your final edited file format, you should have the option to record your final edited version in 24p, but I believe this would worsen your end quality as it throws detail data out as it reduces the file size. It starts getting a little complicated at this point. Whether it actually plays back in 30p or not, the main point is how you originally recorded it. The 30p play back frame rate would be better in picture quality even though you recorded it in 24p. The higher the play back frame rate the higher the resolution appears. 24p works best on high end and hi def camcorders because it has allot more video data to work with.

Low light shooting with 24p can be interesting of giving you a more enhanced film grain look as in motion pictures. The HV20 should give still give you some nice results with minimal shadow noise because of its extra packed video data in comparison to SD video.

Bottom Line: You really need to experiment with all your options before making a decision of how you are going to record your video footage and how you want it look as an end product.

Good Luck, and Happy Shooting!

Piero Foto

Piero, many thanks indeed!

To summarize the central points: You recommend shooting in 24p (including outdoors and in bright light?), and rendering the final work in 30p. And even though the footage is shot in 24p, but shown in 30p, the look and feel will still carry over, and will actually produce a higher quality product (in terms of the film look) than if shot originally at 30p.

I read the article you recommended and it was helpful; in that or one of the other articles it links to there's a mention of some complications in taking 24p footage and showing it at 30p. You didn't mention it specifically, but would I be right in saying that feature movies on DVD are indeed produced and shown that way--in other words, just as I mentioned at the top of this post, and how I'll plan to do it myself?

The Canon HV20 has both a 24p shooting option and a separate setting for film-like color and tonal characteristics; I'm guessing you'd recommend using the film-like setting along with the 24p mode (Canon says they can be used separately).

I shall as you suggest shoot some scenes using both 30p and 24p, and see how they look, but I'm certainly going to be leaning towards the use of 24p based on what you've said and everything I've read so far.

Thanks!

ADMINS: It was really a challenge to find these excellent question and answer pages when I came back to your main page--I'd suggest you put a prominent link there. Also, I needed to contact you about something, but the feedback and contact links don't provide a form or an e-mail address; it looks like the wrong pages are associated with those links.

Thanks again.

I have one more question, and that's about purchasing the HV20. You've posted a link to a vendor called cameraaddict.com in other threads, and they've been displaying a price usually in the mid-$800 range, and well below what well-known vendors are charging. They're located in Brooklyn, and a couple of years ago when I was buying a digital camera I tried to get the very lowest price and dealt with a couple of outfits in Brooklyn and it ended up being a pretty rough experience. Have you dealt with this vendor, or do you know others who have? Can you recommend them beyond the price? I notice from their site that if anything goes wrong their return policy is a scant 7 days.

Actually, there's one more question: How long have you used the HV20? I'm curious because it's just becoming available right now, and I've only seen one in-depth online review so far.

I have not dealt with cameraaddict.com, but you should always be cautious with any website online ordering. Normally when someone supplies a phone number on their site its a little more reassuring. Its always good to talk to someone before ording to feel them out.

I own a Canon miniDV, but not the HV20. If I had the HV20 I could give you some specific advice on camcorder itself but unfortunately I don't.

According to the included accessories it doesn't look like its one those scams where they advertise a cheap price because they will sell everything alacart.

Included Accessories       
- Battery Pack (with Terminal Cover)
- Compact Power Adapter
- N Stereo Video Cable
- Wireless Controller
- USB Cable
- S Component Cable
- Digital Video Solution Disk for Windows and Macintosh
- 1 Year Limited Warranty

Also when you order, I suggest a minimum 2GB SD memory card, 4GB would be better in case you run out of tape or decide to record video on the memory card itself.

Al has made a good point.

Products without warrenties and sold as gray market are classified as import products. I have purchased a Nikkor lens that way, I got it real cheap as it had no warrenty, but I never had a lens fail on me over the past 30 years so I was not concerned. Some people buy "import" non-USA products and then get a service plan which is far better than the manufactures warranty.

If you are not comfortable with the whole idea, then shop at an authorized canon dealer, just pay the price for piece of mind.

All I say guys is check out all ratings before you buy. They also go by inifinitiphoto.com: resellerratings.com/store/B... 

Don,
Another important thing to keep in mind, audio sound recording.

I am suggesting a wireless mic system as another option for external mics because it can work well in recording distance sounds. If your documentaries include people talking, the lapel mic(Lavaliere) can be placed on your subjects lapel/collar area. This will assure that the surrounding sounds and noises do not drown out, muffle, or over power your subjects voice. The Lavaliere mic is a miniature mic which is descrete looking with a transmitter that is usually clipped to the waist area or placed in pocket. The reciver part is plugged into the camera, so this will allow you to record audio in a far distance in the audience like on a balcony level in a concert hall and record her voice as if she was standing next to you.

There are different models of wireless systems, some are made for better distance and more reliable signal strength. You should base the signal strength required by at least doubling the distance you actually need to be more reassuring in covering you for better signal transmission.

Some wireless mic systems come with both a hand held mic and a Lavaliere mic, including transmiter and receiver. Some systems allow you to use multiple mics. They are very easy to set up, you just need to flick a switch on the transmitter and recever so they match up frequencies and you are ready to go. Having the option of selecting a different frequency is good so that you change it any time you feel that one signal frequency is better than another for that location.

Reviews have not been the best for Nady and Sony models, they can be cheaper and would be also considered more of a toy. Azden seems to be very good brand in wireless mics, they are taken more seriously.

Wireless camcorder Microphones:
nextag.com/wireless-camcord... 

This site here is very good for advanced/pro videographers.
The "VideoGuys.com"
videoguys.com/azden.htm 


Here is a movie editing software that can be added to your computer in addition to what you may already have.

Editing software option: "Intermediate level"
bestpricecameras.com/prodet... 


Good Luck, and Happy shooting!

Signing off.
Piero Foto

One more thing everyone.
If you can click all the helpful thumbs up at the bootom of my responses that would be great, I have already done that for Documentary Maker, and Al.

Thanks!

Al, thank you. That's truly excellent information; you're quite right about sticking to reputable vendors like Newegg and Amazon. Truthfully I had a woozy feeling just visiting the Web page of that vendor I mentioned above. And I followed up and checked the reseller ratings for the second one Piero mentioned here: a rating of 0.15 out of 10!! With a rating like that they should probably be out doing community service.

So I'll add resellerratings.com to my favorites. The Amex information was very helpful too; I had to use their "disputed charge" service to reverse a $40 charge for a fake helicopter gadget I bought at Christmas that wouldn't work at all--and the vendor was recommended by a well-known tech site (they had no problem with their review product from the site, but I did when I ordered too close to Christmas). So I've used that service successfully, but I wasn't aware of the two-year warranty coverage--so thanks for that too.

Piero, I have a basic tripod...but I've never heard of a monopod, so I'm going to check into a better tripod, and a monopod too. You've been really helpful. And now we both know of a couple of "too-good-to-be-true" low-price vendors to avoid too.

This has been one productive thread!

I am going to feed info responses as I come across anything important.

Read the info in link on miniDV tapes.
In general I know that emulsion formulas can be different from one type or brand to another, but this just confirms the exact difference for HD tapes:

Its best to find one good brand and stick with it. You will get longer cam head life in the log run, plus it will easier to maintain consistant picture results. HD miniDV tapes are generally loaded with more metal in the emulsion, more metal, faster head wear.

Maxel HDV tapes is superior.
att.macrumors.com/attachmen... 




I also want to share with you guys my first movie cam I got when I was a film student. Back in '78, I had a Canon 1014XL-S movie film cam, it was like having a cam comparable to today's Canon XL2 DV video.
Check it out
retrothing.com/2005/11/cano... 

The time lapse features are cool for animation. There are features and functions in this cam that are not even available in today's camcorders. By the way, I am holding it in my hand as I am writing this response. Many great memories. I still have the film editing equipment and Multi track sound-on sound movie projectors. I have used it professionally until around 1992.

Check out the impressive specs
canon.com/camera-museum/cam... 
canon.com/camera-museum/cam... 

Thanks for the the link re: HDV tapes. I've become unshure the more I research HD cameras; some reviews and specs mention the advantage of recording HD on regular DV tapes, then others mention HDV tapes. There is definitively a price difference. Have you guys seen an HD comparison using the two?

Technically, you can get many recordings and play uses from a tape, but it deteriorates after each time you record or play back until it looks like a VHS tape that's been well used from BlockBuster rentals. The tape stretches, warps, and the magnetic coating wears out.

Hi, Alisa.
We can start another great thread. Its best to post a new question so that it will easier for others to find in case they have some of the same issues or for anyone else that wishes to respond to.

In the meantime I will look into some info for you.

I will be looking out for your question.

Thanks!

Alisa.
Your question can be posted at the top of this page where is says:
Have a question about the HV20?

Thanks!

Cameraaddict people are
LIARS .... BAIT and SWITCH .... CROOKS
I bet anything that the good reviews on other sites are from company guys.
Its the usual experience for everyone...order and get a mail to call...then the sales rep who is not only rude (understatement) but also one who threatens.
After i asked them to cancel the order because he lied to me that cacorder doesnt come with a battery (imagine that...do they think ppl r idiots? and buy stuff w/o knowing?) he asked me to apologize (when he was the one who was rude) or he'll keep the phone down and charge 180$ (for nothing!!!)

i suspect they are just there to harass people...a set of SAIDSTS or worse IDENTITY THIEVES bcause if its just money they want to cheat on they could have let the order thro' and overcharged.....but they make u call and talk utter rubbish on the other end w/o respect for age or gender.
Its HORRID.

Lesson: THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH...
dont even dream of getting something for less than 70% its value.
ONLY BUY FROM REPUTED sources.

They have been reported to BBB for fraud.
also check out complaintsboard.com/complai... 

Hey. David.
First I would like to say congratulations on the HV20, good choice

There are many video editing software programs out there to choose from, some are much more sophisticated than others. For beginners its going to be a learning curve no matter which way you look at it.

Adobe premier is good, and its also good to have more than one editing program in your computer so that you have choices of which to use for different editing applications and video file format conversions. Sometimes they can be used in combination to get the best results of getting the the job done with less issues.

Here is a link to one video editing file conversion software that could be useful in addition to Adobe premier.

Editing software option: "beginner/Intermediate level"
bestpricecameras.com/prodet... 


Also, check out this site, VideoGuys.com
They cater to the beginner to the advanced/pro videographers and I believe they have training program options with editing software. This site is loaded with just about everything for your Video needs. This is a site you really need to surf, its got allot of great stuff.

videoguys.com/ 

Happy Shopping!

Thanks Piero,

Can I ask what software you are using?

Thanks for the other post as well. I was actually headed out to buy a tripod. I noticed that holding this thing still was not easy. I cannot stand jiggly video...

As a follow-up there. Do I need to get a lens glass filter/cover. I have them on my digital camera (like a UV filter, etc.) just to protect the lens. Do I need this with a camcorder?

Thanks again for your information and willingness to help others!

Also look into a monopod, its a great tool to support hand held shots. Its easier to carry around and it will make your shots much more stable than the image lens stabilization system. You will propably get more use from this than a tripod in most cases.

If you decide to also get one of these, make sure it has a tilt head for your video cam.

Happy Shopping.

If these resonses are helpfulful just click the thumbs up symbols

Thanks!

Hey David.
Let me put my thoughts together on your questions. I am in Florida, its 2:20am but I will still up for awhile. I will get back soon.

Thanks Piero!

Likewise, I am in FL and was up late playing with the new toy!

I attached the HV20 directly to my TV (ViewSonic 47" HD TV, although a few years old). I used the component cables (not HDMI). At the time I did not have HD tapes so I just used it as a monitor. Was not impressed with it at that time either. Saw some fuzziness on the edges. Just chalked it up to poor cables that came with the device and an older HD TV. (I believe the TV is 720p native although Discovery Channel HD at 1080i looks fantastic from my cable provider.) Have not played the recorded video through it yet. Will do today.

My Laptop is a Dell Latitude D820 (Core 2 Duo @ 1.8GHz and 2G mem) with the NVIDIA Quadro NVS 120M. Not the highest end card in the world, but it is supporting Vista Aero interface just fine. LCD Screen is 17" - 1920 by 1200 wide-screen.

Lighting was at night with ambient room lighting. I was shooting directly at table with a lamp on it. It was not the low light noise that bothered me, although it might later...

Tape is a Sony HD DVM63.

Trial version of Premier version 3.

No filter effects on. Tried both Auto mode and P (program) mode on the HV20.

Just importing video as HD with the basic program defaults. Using 1394 cable between PC and HV20.

As a follow-up. I did change the imported clip Field Properties to be Always Deinterlace and it smoothed out quite a bit. So, I am still leaning to an interlacing problem. Also, I have not burned the video to DVD to try it that way. Maybe my machine is just not enough for this (can you say Apple?).

I will get more info to you, but one of the things of higher quality video.

"The more light the better"

Talk to you real soon!

Thanks again Piero,

Interlacing is definitely what is going on here. In fact, the biking image from the wikipedia site (about midway down) is a mild example of what I am seeing. The combing effect is what I don't like.

Still in the process of making a DVD from Premier to see what happens. I don't think it could go much slower...

David.
Here is more info.

The HV20 records in 24p(fps-frames per second) and it is stored in a 60i stream for NTSC(North America) (likewise, 25p is recorded but stored as 50i for PAL format (other countries). It is done that way to work with existing standards.

The 24p recording is only stored in 60i and seems to be a desirable choice by many reviews I have read. 30p would be standard playback frame speed rate.

24p(fps) is what's used in the professional motion picture industry. Many people have been waiting a long time for this feature in a video cam.

Here are some links that contains excellent info and reviews on (HD)video.

CML is a place for professional cinematographers to talk and exchange ideas about cinematography.

30p or 60i topic:
cinematography.net/Pages%20... 
Home page:
cinematography.net/index.htm 
All video topics:
cinematography.net/video%20... 

Does anyone know how the HD 20 would perform for underwater vidiography. I have assumed that the 24P mode would assist with lower light conditions. I am a complete amateur and don't want to tackle underwater lights for a while.

there is nothing worst then hd editing you have to pay a lot for program otherwise you're stuck with tons of cassets.

where i find free dawnload hv20 softword

there is not free but have to pay about 100$ for sony vegas editing program,take premium new one . you can't get get any of those for free but you can buy the chipest with 24fps to editing from your canon hv20.if you record at 60fps or 30fps you can use pinnacle11 because there is that option and cost you less. at sony vegas you've got all that options.good luck.

Hey, Alisa.
HV20, good choice for high quality a consumers cam.

The HV20 features a microphone terminal for attaching an external microphone. The audio/video terminal doubles as a headphone terminal for monitoring sound while recording. The HV20 also offers manual audio level adjustment, giving the user precise control. you can indeed monitor the external mic with headphones at the same time with the Canon HV20, but you have to remember to set the default of AV out to headphone mode.

16bit is a higher quality than 8bit, but my Canon miniDv SD cam indicates that 8bit is four channel and 16bit is two channel. So, I am not quite sure if 8bit would be better for multi-track audio recording. Anyway, don't be concerned about it, because there is sound on sound features in video editing software that allows you to be very creative in post production.

The HV20 records in 24p(fps-frames per second) and it is stored in a 60i stream for NTSC(North America) (likewise, 25p is recorded but stored as 50i for PAL format (other countries). It is done that way to work with existing standards. For what I understand, 24p is the recording frame rate and the captured video is stored/saved in 60i, so your final footage is 24fps at 60i. This seems to be the preferred choice for NTSC. 30p would be a standard playback video frame rate, and also a standard recording for SD video.

HV20 video formats: SD mode should record in standard broadcast format of 4:3 ratio and SD wide screen should be 16:9 ratio. HDV 24fps(frames per second) is the frame rate of how many frames are exposed in one second to make one second of motion play back in HD. I am not 100% sure, but straight HDV mode could be HD video recorded as standard 30fps or for play back play only. The reason why I am not sure on the HDV mode for the HV20 cam is because I have read that the HV20 only records in 24fps.

If you have different video formats you want to combine together in editing, you will need to first convert them to all the same video format you choose for your final master edited version. Editing software generally should give you many options for video conversion formats. If your editing software is a little short of those options, then you can buy a video conversion program that will convert any video file format to another. It gives options of file types, different compressions, and video formats.


Here are some links that contains excellent info and reviews on HD video.
CML is a place for professional cinematographers to talk and exchange ideas about cinematography.
cinematography.net/Pages%20... 
cinematography.net/index.htm 
video topics
cinematography.net/video%20... 

TDK Pro Grade HDV Tapes:
TDK seems to focus their specialties on longevity for archiving, but know mention on minimizing cam head wear. This tape well worth keeping in mind.

Published Review:
TDK Pro Grade HDV offers 63 minute length and is ideally suited for capturing footage in superb quality HD resolutions such as 1080i and 720p. Supplied in library cases that securely close, sealing out potential contaminants such as dust and liquids, TDK Pro Grade HDV comes fully equipped for shelf archival. Capture the world in new detail with TDK Pro Grade HDV.

Innovative Dual Layer Metal Evaporation (DLME) and Hard Carbon Protective Layer (HCPL) technologies help make TDK Pro Grade HDV media the failsafe solution for capturing footage with an HDV camcorder. The tape°¶s base layer provides an outstandingly uniform and stable foundation for the metal evaporated recording layer, thus realizing far fewer dropouts than other DVC media. Meanwhile, the Hard Carbon Protective Layer (HCPL) protective layer defends against scratches, friction, de-oxidation and temperature/humidity. TDK's premium cartridge design offers superior durability and realizes an ultra-stable tape run, which further helps ensure bit-perfect recording and playback




Sony High Definition Minidv Tapes:
With Sony products, its a tough call. Sony generally makes great products, but at times they fall short in quality with their accessories and extras. So far Sony has not claimed anything special with their tapes except that they are a great high quality, but so has everyone else. I would only consider Sony tapes if I had a Sony cam.

Published Review:
Sony's best performing consumer miniDV videocassette is ideal for high definition recording and playback. 90% fewer errors and 50% fewer dropouts for improved reliability and audio/video stability. 3dB higher carrier-to-noise ratio for greater output and less noise during recording




Maxel miniDV HD tapes:
Maxel just as Fuji have been around for along time in manufacturing their own audio and video tapes. I have no problem with trusting Maxel for excellent quality. I recommend buying the best they offer. With Maxel's new HD DVmini tape technology, Maxel looks like they really got something to seriously consider.

Maxel HDV tapes is superior.
att.macrumors.com/attachmen... 




Fuji MiniDv high quality tapes:
I have been using Fuji for about twenty years and found their tapes to be very durable, reliable, and record very clean video quality. I can always trust a manufacture that has their own laboratories to make their own products.

Published Review:
DVCAM media are the most compact professional digital video recording media ever to be introduced. As the shift from analog VTR systems continues to gather momentum troughout the video production and broadcasting industries, the DVCAM format is expected to become one of the leading formats for VTR systems.

Fujifilm DV131 videocassette are produced using a pure cobalt advanced evaporated coating with DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) that ensures exceptionally high output, a low error rate, and outstanding reliability.
Offering broadcast and video production professionals to 184 minutes of digital video recording capacity, they come in specially designed hard cases that are equipped with a side-lock mechanism to protect the tapes from deformation and damage.
Fujifilm DV131 DVCAM videocassettes (without IC mem-ory chips) will be available in standard and mini cassettes. The standard videocassettes will be offered in 34, 64, 94, 124 and 184- minute lengths; the mini cassettes will be offered in 12, 22, 32, and 40- minute lengths.

With the addition of DV131 videocassettes to its professional-use digital video tape line, Fujifilm now offers broadcasters and video production professionals one of the widest tape product lines in the industry. Covering everything from SD to HD systems, the Fujifilm line-up offers next-generation performance and quality that meet the rigorous demands of professional VTR system users in every respect.
         
DVC 60 specs.
Magnetic Properties
Coercivity (Hc)   120kA/m (1510 Oe)
Retentivity (Br)   450mT (4500 Gauss)
Squareness (Br/Bm)   0,8
Physical Properties
Tape Width   6,35 mm
Tape Thickness   7 µm
Transparency   Less than 5%
Recording Characteristics
Optimum Recording Current   0 dB
Data Signal Output Level (21 MHz)   More than -1dB
Frequency Response (21 Mhz/10.5 Mhz)   ÃƒÆ’‚±2 dB
Overwrite Level (21 MHz/10.5 Mhz)   Less than +2 dB
C/N (21 MHz)   More than -2 dB
C/N (10,5 Mhz)   More than -2 dB
Tracking Signal Output Level (0,47 Hz)   0 dB
Tracking Signal Overwrite Level (0,47 Mhz/21 Mhz)   under +1 dB
Impuls Hall   +/- 5%


Bottom Line:
In general, emulsion formulas can be different from one type or brand to another. The difference would be based on color, durability, and image quality. I would say that their all very closely competeive for picture quality, the main thing to look for is the consistancy in overall video quality. Anything above that is a bonus.

Its best to find one good brand and stick with it. You will get longer cam head life in the log run, plus it will easier to maintain consistant picture results as you know what to excpect. HD miniDV tapes contain more metal in the emulsion, more metal, faster head wear. Maxel looks like a good choice unless other brands claim the same.

Any manufacter that specializes in producing their recording tape line would be most trusted in quality.

Happy Shooting!

oh, i found them on tapestock.com. They are half the price of the other hdv tapes though, which is great if they really are specifically designed for hdv and tried and true in the HDV format, or are they just a reliable miniDV tape that is a close competitor to the others that seem to be specifically developed for HDV?
I am mainly concerned with getting the best picture and sound quality possible. between maxell, tdk and fuji, what will give me the best quality?
Thanks again.

Hey, Ebo.
You will need to upgrade your operating system to Mac OSX 10.4.4. or better. That's the best way to make your video and audio editing software on a mac work with iMovie HD, Final Cut Pro suite, iDVD, Garage Band, Live Type, and etc. I use my DV cam on a Mac Pro with 2GB Ram and it works great, anything better is a big bonus.

You need to use USB for SD memory card download and firewire(1394) for video download on a Mac. The camcorder will not show up on the desktop. Plug in firewire, open iMovie, then turn camera to VTR(play back mode) and iMovie Will detect it. You will have the choice to download or just view the footage. I recommend to first view your video footage because it takes some time to download, iMovie will have play back buttons at bottom of screen so that you can control the play back functions of the camcorder through iMovie.

In iMovie you will have many selections for video conversion and compression file fromats. You can then send your editied version to iDVD to create an interactive DVD intro for options of, "play movie, "scene selection", "slide show" and etc. With imovie you can change frame rates, but generally standard NTSC video is played back at 30fps.

Your 300GB drive will be sufficient for editing, but there will come to a point you will need to store your final videos either on more hard drive space, or DVDs, or record back and store it on to miniDV tape.

Happy Editing!

Hi, Carol.
Yes, the Sony DCR-DVD505 Handycam DVD Camcorder allows you to record and play DVD disc on your DVD player.

DVD format video recording
The DVD recording format delivers digital picture and sound quality comparable to that of MiniDV, but on DVD. Playback of the DVDs couldn't be simpler. After finalizing the disc in the camcorder, the disc can play back in most DVD Players, computers and even PlayStation 2 video game consoles.

DVD-R/RW and +RW compatible
The DCR-DVD505 is compatible with a variety of DVD formats allowing the easy of use and simplicity found in DVD Media. With DVD+RW media there is not a need to finalize the disc (minimum recording required). Simply remove the disc and insert the media into a compatible DVD player.

Happy Shopping!

Thanks for the info. Which camera is recommended for use with the MAC??

Hey, Carol.
All the camcorders above that I have listed will love your Mac and also PC. I have already taken all those things into consideration. The camcoder that does not have an external mic option is the GS320, but all these camcorders uses miniDV tape, they all do not record in an MPEG format, and they also offer features for the beginner to advanced vidieogrphers.

Hey, Carol.
Here is a link to a Mac thread. This thread was over extended, but I can tell you that there was allot of interesting and good info that came out about SD and HD video for Mac computers and software, plus more.

digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor... 

Anoher question: how do you convert the tape to dvd on the Mac, using the HD20. I am interested in this because we do have hdtv and blueray here at the house... but my concern is how easy will it be (and what do I need to purchase) in order to take the tape, make a dvd and play it on the blueray...

carol

Carol,
Hi, I was just on responding to Piero's answer to my question. I have a Sony DVD505. It is a nice cam...

Either my wife or I see any issue with the quality of the picture. We feel it looks as good as what you get on cable DVD movies etc.
The only issue with the DVD505 that we have is the DVD can only record up to 30 min of continuous footage. Then you have to put in another DVD. 30 min can go by quite quickly & then trying to manage where you may have left off time wise on a disc etc can complicate the issue.
Just thought you may want to add that to your info.

Feel free to contact me should you have any questions.
Thanks!
Ron

Thanks a lot for all the input Piero Foto and Ron Roy. I am certainly getting an education and feel I know more about what to look for.

Hey, Carol.
First, plug your HV20 to Mac computer with firewire cable, then you open iMovie software, then turn on your HV20 and switch it to VTR(playback mode). iMovie will see it and you will have the choice to play back video or downloaded to your hard drive. Once your video is downloaded, you will have many options in iMovie to convert the video file to a number of different formats, for eg: HD, SD, QuickTime for iDVD, emailing, and etc. then once the video is converted you can export it to your DVD burner, CD burner, email, and etc.


Carol, you really need to read this Mac thread, there is allot of good advice.

Here is a link to a Mac thread. This thread was over extended, but I can tell you that there was allot of interesting and good info about SD and HD video for Mac computers and software, plus more.

digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor... 


Happy Shopping!

Carol.
The beauty of a miniDv cam system is that you can also record your editied video back to miniDV tape. If you record it back to tape you will be to keep the full resolution video quality the same way as it was shot. This will give you the best possible quality. Then you can actually play your edetied tape from your cam to HD TV.

Also, the final edited video does not have to be converted if you record it back to tape, which means no video file or MPEG compression.

Happy Shooting!

Hi Piero, I'm trying to export my final cut sequence back to my Hv20 now and I'm not having any luck--should my hv20 be set to camera mode or playback mode, are there any settings in the camera I should go to to get it to accept video, etc., anything special I need to do in FCP to acomodate the hd20?

Hey, Ian.

First, since I am not sure what camcoder you have, let me say that Sony is not Mac compatible. If its a Canon or Panasonic, then try the following steps.

First, plug your miniDv camcorder to Mac computer with firewire cable, then you open iMovie software, then turn on your camcorder and switch it to VTR(playback mode). iMovie will then see it and you will have the choice to play back video or download it to your hard drive. iMovie even controls your play back cam functions through the iMovie software. Once your video is downloaded, you will have many options in iMovie to convert the video file to a number of different formats, for eg: HD, SD, QuickTime for iDVD, emailing, and etc. then once the video is converted you can export it to your DVD burner, CD burner, email, and etc.

Keep-in-mind that the camcorder will not show up on your desk top like an external device.


Happy Downloading!

Ian.
If you need any further advice, just ask in the reply box below. We will be more than happy to conclude your question.

Thanks!

Ian,
According to some specs I came across, the HC46 miniDV tape camcorder shows that it records uncompressed MPEG video which is a good start for easier downloading. It also indicates that it has firewire connection, you should double check this in your manual to see if this is correct.

Now, as far as the iLink connection goes, it could work, but the real question is, with what video importing software. Someone who just tells you what cable to use cannot know much about Mac's. Its like me telling you that the firewire cable will do it, then what. I have no knowledge of imovie recognizing a DV camcorder besides through firewire. To be perfectly honest, since you have this camcorder just get your self an iLink cable and find out for sure if it Will be recognized by iMovie. That's the only way to know for sure. If it doesn't work you will need to try a third part video importing editing software.

Make sure that you are using MAc OSX 10.4.4 or better.

Now, iLink may work only just for playback. I am not quite sure why, but Sony always makes things really difficult with third party capabilities and Macs.

This web link is a beginner/intermediate video editing conversion software that is very versatile for PC and Mac, but looks like it also may only work through firewire.
bestpricecameras.com/prodet... 

Ilink description:
searchsmb.techtarget.com/sD... 

iLink cables:
mycablemart.com/store/cart.... 

Hi, LR.
The HV20 uses a universal Firewire(1394) Cable 4P-6P(4pin-6pin). They cost an average of $30 retail. I picked one up a local BestBuy store and it works great, problem free. They can come in diffrent grades, some are made with better metals like, silver or gold plated connections. Generally, they will all do the same job for transfering your video data.

The 4-pin side fits the HV20, and the 6-pin side fits the standard firewire(1394) port.

This retailer looks like they manufacture there own cables and are able to sell them at wholesale:

pccables.com/cgi-bin/orders... 

Happy Shopping!

Thanks.

Happy Shooting!

Hey, Richie.
Your operating system of 10.4.8 is fine, its always good to keep it current (10.4.9).

Your processor will be OK, but more would obviously be better.

Your Ram memory is questionable, if you have more expansion slots, I would max out your Ram memory option or get the biggest single Ram chip. I use my duo core Mac book pro with 2GB Ram, it runs pretty smooth for a laptop. SD video mode will help run a Little faster on your Mac.



The 24p(fps) option can be used in any combination with SD and HD, also the HV20 has film filter effect that can also be used in combination. As professional, I got a feeling that SD might give a better feel and look of film as the resolution is not so tight as HD, believe it or not. Depending on if your movies are for large projection, before you start your projects this is what I strongly recommend. First, you need to run a number of shoot tests in different setting combinations with SD and HD, then save it as the final video file format source you intent to use, and finally, view it as it would be your actual completed movie footage. At this point you will then have your answer to which is the best way to shoot. Trust me, you will be thankful you did these tests in advance rather of trying to paddle upstream later.

For editing, iMovie is cool, but I recommend using Final Cut Express/Pro for a few good reasons. Final Cut editing software has much more versatility and it works more like a real editing software should. Final Cut is more precise and will help run your Mac smoother and more efficient with filters, effects, sound, and graphics in actual time. The key importance with Final Cut is you will be able use an imported film clip over as many times as you want without loosing the original imported video footage. With iMovie you have to keep make another copy of the same video clip to use it in another sequence which means it chews up more memory as your video file size gets bigger to work with. With iMovie, if you only use just a few frames of an imported film clip, you have to import or make a copy the same clip in again if you need to use other frames of the same of movie clip.

Final Cut ProHD costs around $1000, but I suggest to get Final Cut Express for $299 which is the same short a few features that would be only used in certain applications for high end broadcast. This shouldn't be a concern as Final Cut Express is already 10x better than iMovie anyway.

Happy Shooting!

Richie.
If your question was not fully understood or you need further advice, you can reply in the reply box below. We will happy to conclude your question.

Thanks!

Richie.
Your video needs and budget does change the ballgame, and i will look into it for you as far as a different direction of camcorders. The HV20 is great, but it looks that your purpose and budget can handle much more.

Could you get away with using an HV20 for your needs? if you had to, probably so, but it does not have interchangeable lenses so you would have to use conversion lens attachements which is not my best recommendation.

I will get to you with more info.

Thanks Piero,

I'd really like to keep my budget under 3,000 if possible. Obviously I'll be adding another gig or so of mac memory w/install, as well as FCexpress per your advice, I'll probably need a better monitor as well.

In the not too distant future I'd love to have a client situation which brings me to the hvx200 w/ minimum out of pocket. My concern is that to buy a dvx100b for ~3,000 only to be looking over my shoulder at the hvx200 @~5,000 makes less sense than spending ~1100 and keeping several stronger options open e.g. dvx, hvx, xh-a1 etc. (especially because I read that it is "possible" to maximize the hv20 and derive some use as the "b" camera to the xh-a1)

Does the conversion lens attachment scenario with the hv20 necessitate use of an ADAPTOR + lens or is it just single lenses e.g. wide, zoom etc but inferior quality?

I understand your intuitive eye prefers the hv20 24p in standard rather than hd mode to more closely approximate a film look, that being the case how does this compare with most basic IMAGE QUALITY of dvx in 24p standard mode? Does the 24 p hd setting of the hv20 offer any real advantages for achieving a decent film look on a big screen. Finally do you go so far as to prefer the 24p STANDARD setting of the hvx200 for any of the same reasons in approximating a more cinematic look, even after blowing up to big screen?

In the end I really want the camera with the best BASIC IMAGE QUALITY -read: most closely approximating film - at the BEST VALUE without going past ~$3,000.

The ability to add a decent wide angle lens and perhaps some depth of field or zoom is important for a few outdoor shots and perhaps 1 indoor shot in any low budget feature I shoot but I am NOT trying to recreate "shindler's list" or anything so ambitiious with this camera. I just want to preserve the debate as to whether or not I shot on say 16mm or even a dvx or such while keeping some back up money in my pocket.

Would it be possible to rent dvx, hvx, or xh-a1 for few days with lenses and still achieve some semblance of a strong match with my other scenes shot intelligently with the hv20.

Thanks again, my questions are so very close to being fully answered!

Best,

Rich

If you are are comparing the HV20 vs the DVX100B, there is a problem with that. its like comparing a car to a truck., but the truth is this:

If you want to put on a show in front of clients and impress them the DVX100B is fine, but if you still want the high performance for the bigest bang for your buck, then the HV20 will do the job.

As far as renting goes, you it shouldn't be a problem with getting a hold of one in a big city.

Cam equip rentals at a few hundred dollars at a time for each mini production can add up real quick towards buying one, but the good thing about rentals is that you can right off a 100% as an expense. Whereas buying one becomes a tax right over a few years in most cases.

Correct me if I'm wrong the "$1,000 interchangeable 20x lens" to which you referred was a hypothetical lens price for a cam like the xh-a1 (which of course already has 20x optical zoom).

This has nothing to do with the hv20 which cannot use any interchangeable lens at all, right?

If i understand correctly with the hv20 I would be better off solving issues of wide angle and zoom "creatively" without using any additional lenses whatsoever as the only options are conversion lenses which are not good?

The interchangeable lenses I am referring to are lenses that are stand alone lenses and can be completely removed from cam body. Neither of these camcorders have this option.

Conversion lenses are add-ons that are attached to the the original cam lens that cannot be removed from cam body, this applies to all these models.

If you get a top quality telephoto or wide angle conversion lens that attaches to your cam lens then you should get some nice results. If you can manage that, then increasing the optical zoom ratio would be superior over cropping(zooming) your video footage in post production. Cropping your video footage is like using a digital zoom which is not desirable, a few percent will be OK.

Getting back to the 20x $1000 lens. I was using it as an example of that it would be better to buy a cam that a longer fixed zoom lens for a little more money than spending allot more later just to get 20x interchangeable lens later.

A 20x zoom will cover just about any shooting coverage.

Hey, Richie.
I don't normally just fire away my answers back like this as this thread is going in many directions, so I need to go and answer other questions that are banging at my door right now.

Is there anything else.

Thanks!

Pietro you are the best! I have far more answers than questions now. I'll check back in tomorrow! RL

My rule of thumb is that if you think you have enough RAM, DOUBLE IT. Video is a bandwidth hog and you can't have enough RAM, fast ram is even better.

As for editing software, Adobe is coming out with a new Premiere Pro in June. You may want to wait for that. Currently, all editing software has downloadable demo versions which you can d/l and try out. Find the ones which work best for you.

I'd defintely give the nod to Premiere over Pinnacle. Without a doubt.

If you can't wait, you may want to try out Adobe Premiere Elements 3.0. It's about $100 and does 80% of Premiere Pro and has HDV support. It will give you 99 video and audio tracks and it may be enough for you to get started.

You can use a USB external drive, but firewire would be faster. Also, you can install a firewire card in your PC.

There are many editing software programs available on the market. You will need to do some research to see which will suit your needs, or just stay with Premiere.

Hey, James.
Here is a question that you might be able to answer better than I can.

digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor... 

Good Luck!

Jason.
For internet/U-Tube/web video, it does not require big resolution.

So yes, internet/U-Tube/Web video quality is not a big issue and can be easily achieved from a camcorder that records with an MPEG format. This will open up allot more choices in consumer camcorders for you. The main importance will then be the type of features you will need, for eg: external mic option, firewire connection, and etc. Also for you to know, MPEG-4 is better quality than MPEG-2. The bigger that CCD image sensor size is, the higher the video quality will be in producing better end video results of compensating for any loss of MPEG compression.

What ever you choose, do not buy a DVD disc camcorder. Your life will be hell! The miniDV or hard drive cams would be the choice.

Good Luck!

For me, get the graphics card you can afford. The faster the better. And if it has more onboard memory to take the load off the processor, then that's a a good idea as well. Not sure about that 2 ghz processor, however. That may be a tad on the light side. If you can afford more, then I'd do it. Video is a hog bandwidth wise and the more power and speed you have to compliment the memory the better. Because the computer will only be as fast as its slowest link.

Yes. According to the specs ( usa.canon.com/consumer/cont...  ), it will shoot in standard DV mode @ about 1.5 MP. So it's a good idea to still get the camera. And just remember, when you're ready to take that leap to HD, you'll have to re learn how to shoot, how to light, even how to edit - as it requires a whole new way of thinking.

And this will also give time for prices to go down on HD burners, HD compatible tvs, hddvd players, etc.

Hey, Lakaym.
The Canon WD-H43 would recommended for the HD20. This wide conversion lens is hi-def compatible and would be your best choice.

High Definition Compatible 0.7x Wide Angle Converter allows you to get closer to the subject and get more in the shot. Screws into the front of the camcorders zoom lens. Designed for 43mm lens diameter.

Thanks a lot - wiil check it out.

Durability is all part of a higher quality lens.

Try placing small weights with Velcro on the other end to counterbalance the camcorder. The heavier the cam the more stable the cam is for panning, and etc.

Happy Shooting!

The reason the frames are 1440x1080 is that is how Canon was able to get the image sensor's 16:9 data (the 1920x1080 frame) stored in the standard HDV format. They horizontally resample the data to get the best 1440 sample representation of the original data. In your video editing package, you need to tell the software to treat the data with the correct pixel aspect ratio so that when you render your output data as a square pixel format you will regenerate the correct 1920 horizontal samples.

I don't use the same package that you do, but in Vegas Video I would adjust the video properties to say that the pixels are 1.3333333 times as wide as they are tall and then *poof* when you render out to a square pixel format you magically get your 1920 samples per line. With any luck and some decent performance of the processor in the camera, many of those samples will be very very close to the original data taken from the 1920x1080 sensor :-)

Does Adobe Premiere Elements 3.0 let you transfer the video from the HV20 in the HDV format ? I have the HV20, and I'm trying to make sure before I go out and buy the program. Please help me out. Thanks

Adobe Premiere elements 3.0 will accept .m2t files straight out of the camera, but use HDVSplit (0.71 version) to split the scenes into separate files.

Hi,
I don't have experienve with Pinnacle Studio, but from what I saw in other programs:
1.Not all support HD capturing at all
2.Those that do support, frequently can't detect automatically if it is HD or SD, and you should use another command/template/profile - telling you are going to capture it in HD.
You can try freeware utility HDVSplit from here:
strony.aster.pl/paviko/hdvs... 
It works fine for me. If it works, the problem is somewhere in the software settings of Pinnacle.
Good luck

I found the difficulty and resolved the problem.

One has to connect the HV20 with the out put set to AUTO...which I had been doing and THEN pull up the Pinnical software.

It work just fine now.

No. Mac is quite clear on it ... firewire (ieee 1394) is the only way. The HV20 uses firewire, as does most, if not all Canon camcorders.

The good news is that you won't have any trouble with firewire. You may, however, make sure that if you're using iMovie you set it up correctly for import. The formats iMovie will accept are:
* HDV 1080i (25 and 30 fps)
* HDV 720p (25 and 30 fps)

And, of course, standard DV.

Final Cut Pro is an entirely different kettle of fish, but you should have no trouble with it in regards to capturing using firewire.

But the bottom line is that the HV20 quite clearly uses firewire.

And if not, firewire cards are really cheap addons.

Yes, you would need a hiDef tv in order to view a HD video. But they do give you the option for recording in standard def until then. But my question is, what's the point of paying for HD if you can't use it?

Well I'm still partial to the Canon line. The ZR850 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ) is a pretty good rig. There's also their cousins the 800 & 830. All three are fine miniDV cameras. Have wide angle, image stabilization, and the analog to digital pass through. Good solid options. All under $400.

However, the HV20 shooting in SD gives you the advantage of a 3CCD chip for shooting. It would still be a good buy even for SD, you just wouldn't be getting the maximum potential out of it until you invested in other HD supporting technology.

Hey, Jack.
It looks like you way off track in this HV20 recognition matter.
The HV20 does not come with a Firewire(1394) cable, do you have one. The HV20 uses a 4-6 pin Firewire(1394) cable to connect to computer.

If you are using a Mac, you can only use a firewire(1394) cable. For PC based computers, you can use both USB and Firewire(1394), but for HD video from the HV20, firewire would be the correct connection to use for video downloading from miniDV tape. Use the USB connection for downloading still photos from your memory card.

Make sure you already have or will need to install an HD(high Definition) video software on your computer to recognize your HV20. Your editing software installed must be HD compatible to recognize the HV20 on your computer. Photoshop is not the correct program.

If you have a Mac computer, the HV20 can be recognized through iMovie HD, and only through a firewire connection. The Camcorder does not mount itself on the desktop like most external devices, it has be opened and imported in through the video software itself.

If you have a PC based computer, it should detect a camcorder when connected. Once again, make sure you have an HD video/editing software installed, regular video software won't work.

"READ YOUR MANUAL" it gives you instuctions for connecting the HV20 to computer.

Jack.
I am surprised your one year old computer does not have a firewire port. In many cases the USB can be used to connect your video cam on your PC computer, but the HV20 is recommended with firerwwire because of the large amounts of data transfer.

You will need to install a firewire card, firewire cards come with one, two, or more connection ports. A single firewire port connection for PC based computers range around $20-$30. You can get them locally at Comp USA, and etc.

Here is one of many links for Firewire(1394a) cards for your PC.
sewelldirect.com/FirewirePc... 

I just bought a HV20. Which kind of HD vedio edit software can
transfer HD vedio tape data to computer for edting? Could you
tell me these software names?

With HV20 do I need a 1395a or 1395b cable?

Thanks for the reply Piero. I have a MacBook Pro core 2 duo and a 1395b cable (I use it for my external Firewire Hard drive). Can I use the same cable for HV20?

You can use the same cable as long as one end fits the HV20.

The link showing the 4-6 pin cable is correct.

Thanks Piero. My Mac has both Firewire 400 (6 pin) and Firewire 800 (9 pin). I think HV20 is FW400 (the manual shows a cable with 4 pin at HV20 end and 6 pin at computer end). So I will get a cable like the one I posted above.

Eduardo, I have the same problem, tried 2 different firewire cables, a multitude of computers and the computer does not recognize. This is the second cannon video camera with firewire in a couple of years that will not work for me. I like the camera but no luck with the firewire port.

I have the HV 20 & everything had been going fine until last week when my PC stoped recognizing the HV 20 connected with a firwire cable. I contacted Canon support and they recomended sending it in to their support for repair. I have another camera that I can connect with the same firewire cable & port, so I know it is the camera. Like the other person indicated above, this is my 2nd Canon I have had issues with the firewire port on. I think they need to do a redisign or get a better supplier. I will think twice before I get another Canon.

I'm using Vista and the HV20 and they are working together to transfer video. Make sure you connect the cable BEFORE you turn on the camera. I have heard that this can damage your camera if you plug it in while it's power'ed on.

I have friend who is having the same problem as everyone here with his camera (panasonic camera and Vista). In his case Vista doesn't even see a new device when you turn on the camera so we can rule out driver issues. I can't find anything that I did differently (camera should show up under "Sound, video and game controllers" in device manager). I'm gonna bring my camera to his house and see if his computer will recognize it. That will at least help us determine what end of the cable has the problem.

Greg.
You can use Moviefactory 6 plus with the HV20 since its an HD editing software, just make sure to use the HV20 with firewire(1394) connection to your computer.

Moviefactory 6 plus:
Bottom Line:
A very good choice for producers who like fancy templates. But set aside time for learning the features, which can be unintuitive, and for figuring out the most efficient workflow.
Pros:
Very attractive DVD templates. Creates text subtitles on DVDs. Very capable multitrim tool.
Cons:
Persnickety file-import feature. Can't create chapter points or playlists for Blu-ray. Confusing HD DVD workflow. Limited options for creating DVD and HD DVD navigation.

Here is a link to other editing software. If you decide on any other editing software, make sure its an HD editing software, if it supports uncompressed video, then even better:
videomaker.com/grid/hd-edit... 

Hey, Carl.
Editing software are slowly becoming available for Vista. As far as your computer goes, you are more than covered to manage most video software programs.

This editing software is one that will work.
Adobe (adobe.com/)  Premiere Elements 3.0 Win XP SP2/Vista around $99

Here is a link to other editing software:
videomaker.com/grid/hd-edit... 

Hi Piero,
Thanks for the tip.
I'll check this out to see if it suits my needs.

I purchased adobe premier elements 3.0 and it does not support mpeg video from the dcr-sr100. T It may work for new sony HDD camcorders but not for this one! More here: adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/web... 

My recommendation for the PC is Adobe Premiere Elements ( adobe.com/products/premiereel/  ). You can import from just about any device (VCR, Camcorder, DVRs, even still shots and video from some cellphones. You have 99 audio and video tracks to play with, so you can do some pretty complex layering. A host of effects. Native HDV support. You can even convert your videos to PAL to share with family and friends on the other side of the pond. And for under $100, it can't be beat.

on the Mac side, you already have it. iMovie. It's easy, it works great, it has some great effects, and you can burn dvds with iDVD with a click of a button.

As a contributor for Videomaker, thanks for the plug Piero!

RJ.
Here is a review from an HV20 owner using different editing software. I hope this will give you a better perspective in selecting the right editing software for your HV20.


Lately I have been trying Adobe Elements 3.0, Pinnacle Studio 11, Ulead Videostudio 11 and Vegas 7.0 +DVD

Mind you, I am a very simple editor. I usually cut and paste and add a few transitions and make a menu. Then I burn the footage on DVD, so I was looking for a very simple editor that gave a great quality output (So far on normal DVD, as soon as HDTV and blue ray will be widely available I might edit the tapes a bit more)

Vegas:
Vegas is just fantastic with great rendering time on my dual core Dell 9200 but I found it way too complicated for an amateur like me. Vegas is the best! But overkill for me and 6x the money!

Elements:
Elements looks really great with build in DVD authoring and very fancy menu's. But incredibly slow rendering/burning and it crashed every time during burning. Also the capture preview doesn't work with the HV20.

Ulead:
Ulead is fine and uncomplicated but still has a tough time with 1080i footage and i did not like the menu structure.

Pinnacle:
For me the winner is Pinnacle Studio 11 Plus: It has everything I want: Very straightforward editing on 5 tracks (More than I need at the moment). Complete automated in- and output as soon as you connect the cam, no hassle with settings, it captures (With preview) without crashes and the output can be dvd, dvd folder or files in all possible formats. For only 100 bucks it is hard to beat.......

__________________
Jeroen


Conclusion: if you are an entry level videographer/editor looking for an easy editing system with your HV20, I would recommend Pinnacle Studio 11 plus. If you want a more demanding software that offers allot of room to grow into for an advanced level, then Sony Vegas would be a very good choice.

Happy Editing!

I do know that ULeads Video Studio offers support for ACVHD. But you know how I feel about Sony's proprietary obsession.

VS 11+ and HV20 are working great together.

My biggest mistake on recording in the app, was using the wrong cable. The usb is the wrong cable, and the firewire is correct.

HD vid looks great. Recording it to dvd is not bad.

Anyone know a good dv tape player/recorder while I wait for blueray/hd-dvd prices to moderate?

which external hard disk would you recommend.I have a latitude D520 and HV20.Thanks

Well, if you're shooting in HD, you'll need an HD monitor to see it. And SD won't handle the bandwidth. One option you might consider is a uility called ON LOCATION (formerly DV Rack) by Adobe. It allows you to not only use your laptop as a monitor, but also has a hard driver video recorder. It makes the tape you use a redundant backup. it's fully HD compliant, has software driven monitor and waveform/luminance utilities and more. Check it out at Adobe.com where you can also download a demo.

Problem is that the format recorded in is NTSC. Secam is a separate format. NTSC shoots at 30 fps (or 24fps is you shoot in 24p). Secam shoots in 25 fps. You're better off just giving him a Canon or Amex giftcard for the amount and let him get a compatible camcorder.

Well that depends. Are you talking about a comparable HD camcorder? Or a 3CCD sd camera?

For instance, the CMOS Sensor on the HV20 gives you nearly 3 megapixels (2,960,000) which is am effective resolution of about 2 megapixels (2,070,000) in HD and about 1.5MP (1,550,000) in SD.

Whereas, Panasonic's version, the HDC-SD1 has 3 CCDs, with a resolution of 560K each (or 520k).


Doing the math, the HV20 could do the same work as the three Panasonic CCD chips but devote about 690K to each color.

Doing the math, it seems that the HV20 has the edge in just megapixels.

As India operates on PAL, you could check Canon's UK site. The India site seems to only offer the HV10.

Pal plays at 25 fps. NTSC video is 30 fps. You will need to reencode and burn for PAL for it to play on PAL.

1. Yes to both questions. It is recorded digitally, but again the NTSC or PAL has to do with frames per second not encoding or whether it's analog or digital. Digital is "1s and 0s."

2. Actually that doesn't matter, they just read the digital signal. So you can play a DVD that's PAL on your computer as long as you have DVD playing software set properly. You may end up with a slight flicker from the monitor however.

3. That's because it doesn't matter. A computer isn't a TV set. The issue is largely due to signals that one region can read with DVD PLAYERS and TV sets, not computers. I can read anything on my PC, but in the US, the DVD players are encoded to NTSC - 30 fps. In Great Britain, it's PAL 35 fps. France - I believe it's Secam which is also 25 fps. Those are the top three.

You'll have a lot of trouble with it. More than it's worth. Again, PAL is 25 frames per second, NTSC is 30 fps. If it reads it at all, it'll be woefully out of synch and will crash your DVD.

Quite possibly not. SONY does have a tutorial for using some of their models as a webcam. I don't know if this is one of them. You can also try a utility called WebCamDV, which tricks Windows into believing your camcorder is a webcam (free demo, $20 for full version). Downside, it's firewire. So you'll need to connect your camera via analog either into your capture card that way or through a bridge like those made by Pinnacle.

Another one is called TrackerCam DV Driver. Same, about $20. There are some wonderful bonus features included in DVdriver, too, that are worth the price of admission in themselves, if you need them.

The first is optical zoom control. If your camcorder is one of several other compatible models, DVdriver is able to control the camcorder's optical zoom from your computer. Just clicking a control with your mouse makes the camcorder's lens zoom in or out.

There is also digital zoom, which works with any model of camcorder.

There are free ones out there, but you get what you pay for.

However, you will probably need to use a separate microphone because the beef is that programs like these don't recognize the audio from the camera.

If you own a PC: How to use a Camcorder as a Webcam (PC Software Only) ( chris.pirillo.com/media/200...  )

Macworld Forums: turn DV camcorder into webcam? ( macworld.com/forums/ubbthre...  )

What you should use (according to the first URL) is that you can use Apple's free Quicktime Broadcaster to broadcast your camcorder video live through a FireWire cable. You can also try iChat USB Cam, however, it costs $10. There is a free trial version available. (for this software, you don't need a firewire cable. a usb cable will work just fine)

Check the other URLs to find out some more software you can use. Or just search google with the query webcam camcorder mac software ( google.com/search?hl=en&...  )

I have a Panasonic MINI DV Camcorder PV-GS 250 (2yrs old) which has both USB and Firewire sockets. I was able to use it as a webcam via MSN Messenger on my old computer which had Windows XP installed as the Operating System. Now that I have Vista installed on my new computer, I am no longer able to use this camcorder as a webcam via MSN Messenger because the MSN Messenger crashes when I run the "AV setup" tool.

I got in touch with Panasonic and their reply was that Vista should allow the camcorder to function as a webcam on MSN Messenger. But ofcourse it does not. Do you know of any Vista compatible video stream drivers that I might be able to download from somewhere................. thanks.

BTW - I noticed that you haven't marked any replies as the "best answer." Are you still looking for an answer? If so, I recommend you re-submit it on digitalcamera-hq.com  so it will have a better chance of being noticed. These days it looks like most questions are being answered within a few days.

If you're happy with the answer you received, you can simply click on "Mark for best answer" bubble and it will close out the question. Thanks for posting it and Good luck!

I don't think your issue is related to cabling.

Was this the tape shot with this camcorder, or are you trying to capture tape made with another camcorder? HV20 will not recognize SD LP recordings.

---
Michael, Canon Elura User Pages ( elurauser.com  )

Just curious. ARe you having the same issues with iMovie HD? If so, then I would be thinking hardware. If not, then chances are it's your Final Cut Pro configuration that's giving you fits.

That's a good point, Skip.

Could this be the problem ( underwaterphotography.com/V...  )?

The computer can not recognize the DV device (Shown as OFFLINE)
An application that displays DVgate images is running (e.g., Smart Capture).

->Close both DVgate and the application that displays DV images, then restart DVgate by itself.
o When using the computer while switching users under Windows XP, an application started by another user is making use of a DV device. In this case, start DVgate after the other user has terminated the relevant application.


I would also try and see if the PC itself is seeing the camera. Absent the software. If so, then your software is the issue. If not, then you probably have a bad driver or cable. I'd download the latest drivers and try a separate cable. Also hook the camera up to AC. This will guarantee a steady power source while you are troubleshooting.

Try capturing with a difference piece of software. I like WinDV. Free. Will support HD. I've never had a dropped frame using it. Google is your friend.

If WinDV sees it, then DVGate is the issue. Which wouldn't suprise me a bit.

Regardless of whether it's HD or SD, Mac still uses firewire to transfer video. Pick up a 4 pin to 6 pin firewire (ieee 1394) cable. I would recommend a shielded one. You could go with Monster, but although the quality is really good, you're overpaying for it. There are more cost effective options out there. Like cablesforless.com  ( cablesforless.com/index.asp...  ).

Radio Shack is another good option.

Hmmm. Interesting. I'm going to have to defer to Apple and Canon on this. As Canon cameras seem designed with Apple compatibility in mind, this is a puzzling one. You may need to reinstall the software. Have you tried connecting a different camera via firewire? If you can't see it, then you may have a dead port or a corrupted firewire driver.

Or, it may be that the audio settings are off. OSX has particular audio settings for camcorders. And if they aren't correct, you have connectivity problems. I ran into that and ended up getting a different camera. If you shot at 12 mHz, for instance, you may have better luck at 16 mHz.

Hi,

I'm having the same problem. I bought a Canon HV20. One of its uses is to broadcast live art events on Stickam.com, but I can't seem to get Stickam to recognize the camera and bring up video or sound through the firewire. I'm not sure what the deal is. Anyone have any suggestions?

Your help will be much appreciated!

Hi all,

I've been at it for hours now and found a solution. One post on HV20.com claimed that a missing "mpeg2 encoder" was the problem and was solved by installing CyberLink PowerDVD. I don't have this software, so I went ahead and installed a mega plugin pack for my Nero. During the install, as all the .dll's and .ocx's being installed flashed on the screen, there was one for mpeg2. Right after the install of the plugin pack (again, for Nero, not PowerDVD), Premiere picked up the camera. It now works without any hiccups.

Hope this helps at least some of you.

i have Cannon Vixia HV 30, and a new MacBook Pro, with Final Cut Pro Studio 2. the macbook pro only has 1 firewire port, and two usb ports. i also have a 1-terabite external hard drive, which also has a Firewire and USB port. my question is: with only 1 firewire port on my macbook, how should i connect both the ext hard drive, and capture video from my camcorder?

Although firewire can transfer at 400Mbps, and since the HV20 is a miniDV camcoder, you will play the footage while the computer captures the footage. As such, you are capturing in real time. So 60 minutes takes 60 minutes to capture.

What software are you capturing with? IMovie or Final Cut?

It largely depends on the software you're using, what your RAM is, etc. If you think you have enough RAM to handle it, you should DOUBLE it because I'm betting you don't have enough. Video is a bandwidth hog, and HD video? Exponentially so.

Jose.
I will start with saying that, in general, the better the cam quality the better the video picture will look on most TVs regardless whether its HD or not. However, in order to get the full benefits of HD recording you will need to play back on an HD TV. HD quality will require you to upgrade your entertainment and computer system to truly acheive the best performance. The beauty about the HV20 is, it gives you the best of both worlds with SD(standard definition) and HD(high definition) video resolution. This will give you recording options to advance your editing and playback quality when you are ready to upgrade across the board in full HD.

If you are not planning to advance to HD technology within the next couple of years, then the GS320 would be an excellent choice and produce an excellent picture viewing on your Trinitron, in addition, the video picture quality will look decent on large screen HD TVs within 50". HD cams will obviously produce a superior quality, but the GS320 cannot be beaten for the price. The GS320 is both Mac and PC compatible, it records on miniDV tape for uncompressed video quality, and it works like a charm with editing software.

What ever you choose just stay away from any lower cam models than the GS320, such as any of the Canon ZR line or the lower Panasonic cam models. These models do not produce very good video quality for DVD and they are not not recommended for large screen TVs.

Happy Shopping!

I agree, JT. And then there's the hassle of having to down convert everytime you want to make a copy for family and they don't have HD because the market saturation isn't quite there yet. It's close, but frankly, I'm waiting.

Jose.
Since you are strongly leaning towards the HV20 and you are in a position of deciding between Mac and PC based computers, I say go for Mac. Mac comes with iMovie HD, iDVD HD, and Garage Band, which is really all you need to edit your movies and make cool DVDs for personal use. iMovie HD, iDVD HD, and Garage Band all interact together along with iTunes for additional music sound tracks that can be added to your movies. I have personally used the iMovie HD 6 version which has allot of bells and whistles for entry to mid level videographers. iMovie can edit your footage, then iDVD can create the DVD disc with menu set-up and special intro effects just like the DVD movies you rent and buy. The Mac's will work great with both SD and HD video, in addition, any Final Cut Pro editing packages can be added to your Mac down the road when you are are ready for a much more advance and professional editing suite.

The new Macs should now all come with the new released 1394b firewire connection which is twice as quick as the original 1394a firewire connection for transferring video to your Mac. The HV20 connects to computer Via firewire, so if you get a PC based computer make sure to have a firewire port, PC generally uses USB for DV transfer.

Bottom Line:
Whether its a Mac or PC based computer they all have there own issues, but after reading the many posted reviews, problems, pros and cons, its clear that Mac computers is the way to go for audio/visuals. In addition to the HV20, even though you do not have an HD TV you can still shoot your footage in HD, playback directly from the HV20 in HD, archive your footage on tape in HD, and for now you can just make SD(standard definition) DVDs for standard DVD players. Either way, SD or HD the quality from the HV20 will be outstanding.

CHECK IT OUT:
This will help give you a good idea for editing with Mac editing software.

iLife/iMovie editing software Demo: (included with all new Macs)
apple.com/ilife/tutorials/#... 

Final Cut Pro/Express editing software Demo:
apple.com/finalcutexpress/q... 

Enjoy!

Piero, I wholeheartedly agree. The Mac is definitely the way to go. Up until recently I shied away from recommending them because of the price difference. But since they made the leap to the intel platform and it's been a success, I have begun recommending them over and above PCs. Reason? The iLife software. It's the best bar none for the regular user who just wants to make home movies and burn them.

I'm not too thrilled with the dumbed down version of iMovie 08 (good news is that users can download the previous version if they don't care for it) , but you just can't beat the entire suite.

And with the ability to run Windows on it via Boot Camp or Parallels, you get the best of both worlds.

Well, the downside of that is that you won't be able to enjoy it when you're here. I'd suggest an NTSC to PAL converter. Unless you spend more time over there than over here, it's going to make sense either way.

It seems to me that the issue is not about signal conversion but what device to use to play those PAL mini dv tapes. At that point I can feed the signal into my Mac and use iMovie to record. I have not been able to find such a device but was offered the option to try a (USA) Canon HV20.

You are correct in your assumption that your tapes simply will not play on an NTSC device. On the old VHS/TV players there was a way of fiddling the vertical hold or tape speed until the picture steadied. If you could slow your player (camcorder) down to 25 frames per second, you might have a fighting chance. I have also not made any further progress on my wedding tapes. I have sent out queries (1) to the groom's brother who airily handed me the tapes at the past minute without specifying what device they were recorded on. There is also the question of what flavor PAL was used, DV, HDV, 16x9, etc. and what compression the camera used to record to the DV tape. (2) mailed two commercial outfits that may rent a camera or do the conversion for a fee. I'll keep you posted.

You bet. Canon's seems to take Mac compatibility very seriously as just about all their cameras can easily connect to OSX. You'll be fine, IMHO.

BT W- there's an interesting video on YouTube ( youtube.com/watch?v=VN0Nw5c...  ) that talks about using HD files on the mac. Worth a watch.

It seems to be a problem that asserts itself after installing Leopard. Connectivity can get broken when OS updates occur. Here are a few things I found which may help:

I can’t capture in Final Cut, what should I do?”

There are a great many issues that can make capture difficult in Final Cut Pro or Express. There are a number of steps to try to determine where the problem might lie. Try these first:

If this was a recent operating system update, try doing the steps in this article from the Apple Knowledge Base. If you’re uncertain whether this applies to you it’s better to do than not.

After that, you should trash your Final Cut preferences and Use Disk Utility to repair permissions. To see how to do that go here.

1. Next shut down your computer.

2. Disconnect all other devices from the computer except the keyboard and mouse.

3. Plug in deck or camera, and turn it on. If you’re using on a camera make sure it’s in VCR mode with the correct output selected. This is important for HDV cameras. If you’re using a G5 tower or a MacPro make sure the device is connected to the rear FireWire port and not the front.

4. Start up the computer and launch the application. Do not open an existing project, try simply firing up the application.

5. Set the correct settings for your media and assign your scratch.

Does the application see the device? If not, do not proceed further. Do not open the capture window. It won’t work. Check the connection on the computer and the camera and try a different cable.

Also, from what I've read, the firewire connection can be toggled on or off. So you may want to check that. Easiest way is to have your camera connected, VCR mode, powered on, then open FCE. This makes FCE connect the firewire. OR: go to View>Video OUT>Refresh Video Devices. If a tick is on Canvas Playback audio is heard from the Mac speakers and firewire is OFF. If firewire is active NO audio is heard on the Mac because firewire is Active.

Also, if you're connecting through a third party port, like a monitor USB or a hub, plug directly into the Mac - it could be that the middle man in the mix is causing you fits.

And as you mentioned, the other tip is to capture in iMovie and then import the footage into FCE. I prefer iMovie 6 mytself.

More tips can be foud here ( discussions.apple.com/searc...  ) in the Apple Support forums.

Hi,

I'm hoping to get the Panasonic AG-HMC151 but I'm also keen to stay with good old Final Cut Express 4.0. Are they compatible? Forum opinion seems to be mixed.

Many thanks,

DG.

Sadly, there aren't really any HD cameras that have effective low light performance. The HV20 is no exception. Check out this video test footage ( camcorders.about.com/od/cam...  ) that shows how it works in low light. But no other HD camera will be able to do any better, IMHO. HD just isn't at the point in camcorder development where low light performance is being perfected.

But plays are usually lit for the subject, so you should be able to take advantage of whatever theater lighting they have to improve your shooting. Use a low light preset and a tripod. Hopefully, you'll be alright.

Well they all promise low light performance, but from what I've been able to see, low light isn't something that HD has focused on just yet. As such, they're all going to have low light performance that needs the help of a light source. There are ways you can cheat this, mind you. Even in movie making (and I've made a few student films) you can use bounce cards, directed light, soft light boxes, even a candle or two to increase your light without spoiling the low light mood.

The HV20 is a fine camera. Probably ideal for your use at this juncture and price. I don't think you'll find one that outperforms it. As I said, all HD cameras at this stage aren't that thrilling in low light only performance. You'll still need to light your scene to help it out.

There are lots of answers on here that just don't answer the questions, the footage in low light on here is actually very good considering the small chip the HV20 uses. I have seen alot of footage from the hv20 and the sensitivity form such a small cheap camera is amazing. It's ludicrous to claim that HD cameras are not developed for low light as yet. Some of the high end HD cams are better in low light then their film counterparts. It's about money and size, the bigger the CMOS or CCD the better the low light will get, as an example it's alleged that the Canon XH A1 is as good at 60 lux (a common low light standard) as it is at 3000 lux (a common ideal amount of light)

It's simple, what you see on screen isn't how it was filmed, people don't shoot professionally in darkness and no film or HD or any cam has and will ever shoot in these conditions.

I have a Sony FX1 which is quite good in low light, there is better, but money doesn't guarantee this. The Panasonic HVX200 is excellent, but it's low light is allegedlly poor. and that's a £3500 camera.

There are many films shot in HD on high end cameras, collatarol is just one of them.

People should know some facts and actually use a wide range of cameras and know HOW to use said equipment before making poor judgments based on nothing but misled personal opinion. I intend to buy an HV20 based on it amazing qualities and what appears to be a nice low light performance for what it is.

I wouldn't give up on the HV20 just yet. All you really need is the proper HD plugin. But updated software may also have it included already. And absent some ludicrous new variant (like iMovie 08), you should always get the most updated version of your software. If, for no other reason, that bugs and issues will be addressed in each update. It should always be your first impulse after installing software to update to the latest version for this very reason.

I prefer Adobe Premiere Elements. They are just coming out with version 4 which has title animation, uploading videos directly to YouTube (doesn't everybody these days?), create iPod and cellphone videos, native HD support (although I think only through BlueRay), a stabilizer filter to help steady camera shaken video, and a cool utility which allows you to edit movies to the beat of a favorite song. There's also the ability to use Movie Themes to edit a video on the fly in just a few minutes.

An upgrade is $79, or you can get it bundled with Photoshop Elements 6 for $119. Such a deal.

Kryxy, YMMV.

I recommended Adobe Premiere Elements. Tell me how I "don't get your questions at all ..." or am I missing something else here?

As for the HV 20 on a a standard def TV ... you can shoot in SD as well with it. As for showing HD on an SD TV in camera? Page 41-42 seems to suggest that you can ...

To use the full 1080i specification or switch automatically to 480i when 1080i isn't supported by the TV.

Page 68 if the manual shows how to use an av minjack to component a/v for connection.

Being that this site sells OEM models, the purchaser would get no support on the product. They'd be on their own should any trouble crop up. And besides, just about every video editor offers a free demo download to try before you buy. If you do buy, buy a COMPLETE copy. If you're a student, you can get some insane student discounts.

But OEM. Asking for trouble.

Well, let's make it a little easier for you! If you want to shoot video and then edit it to take out wasted scenes, add titles and music, etc., you're taking a hit in video quality by shooting native with a DVD camera ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ). This is because the video on DVDs is encoded to MPEG2, a compressed format. It's great as an end of the line format, but not for shooting source footage. Likewise, hard drive based camcorders ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ), while convenient, tend to record in MPEG2 (only JVC gives you an option to record in AVI). This gives you the same problem. Additionally, you will also have to "re-encode" (also called demuxing) the footage into an editable format. It's a hassle for those of us who wish to edit our videos as a hobby.

Oppositely, miniDV cameras ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ) are much more robust and are much better in format because once you've captured, edited and then burned to DVD, you aren't recompressing already compressed footage, like using the DVD camera would force you into. Since you're a MAC user, on thing you'll have to pay attention to is compatibility. Some cameras, like SONY won't work well with the MAC unless you use the optional dock since it has a firewire connection. That's important in the Mac world and few SONYs have it (which is ironic since they developed it), instead, choosing to rely on USB 2.0. So, if you like SONYs, you'll need to see if the camera has an optional dock with a firewire connection. (the Sony HC96 is one such example).

So, why haven't I talked about HD? I just don't think it's ready for the mainstream consumer because of market saturation of HD. As such, it's purely the domain of professionals and early adopters who don't mind investing a good deal of cash to be the first ones to use the latest. That's changing mind you. As we head towards 2009 (the year that Uncle Sam has mandated for moving television broadcast into the HD spectrum), prices have dropped dramatically this year on HD televisions (from $8K to just over $1K), but let's not forget that you'd also need an HD capable editing software, HD DVD burner, HD dvd player, etc. And you need to unlearn and relearn how to shoot HD. And how many friends and family are actually investing in HD at the moment? Sharing HD DVDs with them will be a problem.

Some will argue that 3 CCD chip is were you want to be. I was in that camp a few years ago, even last year. But single chip design has come to far as to narrow the gap between them so much that spending more money on a 3 CCD chip camera isn't the advantage it once was, particularly with the rise of HD.

Although Apple's position is to tell you to check with each camera's manufacturer for compatibility, just looking on Apple's website, you can easily see what cameras they sell that are compatible. Factoring out the Sanyo's (since they record in a compressed MPEG4 - not great for editing), that leaves Canon and Panasonic (particularly the Panasonic HDC-SD1 Digital Hi-Def Camcorder).

I'm a big fan of Canon ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ). They are designed with MAC compatibility in mind and most of their models have 16:9 widescreen, image stabilization, and very good low light capability. The ZR850 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ) is a good one for Standard Definition, and the HV20 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ) for HD.

The simplest way to explain it is to picture two water pipes (Firewire ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireWire  ) and USB ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirel...  )). One bigger than the other. Both can transmit water to your home, but the firewire pipeline is much faster because it's much bigger. And that's important when you're dealing with video because video takes up alot of water (bandwidth ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandw...  )).

CCD, on the other hand, stands for Charged Coupled Device, and is the image sensor which translates the light image coming in though the lens into digital bits of information to be recorded onto the tape. In the film world, it was a shutter that controlled the light's exposure to the film. But in video, you need an electronic chip that can translate the light information into something that can be recorded onto the tape. That's what the CCD does, without getting too technical.

As for while is better ... they are essentially the same with one exception. The ZR850 records more pixels of light coming onto the CCD ... almost 25% more (1.07 mp vs. 680k). That means a sharper, more colorful image.

Agreed. But don't leave it there. You're going to want to look at additional lighting options, depending on where you're taping the dance.

Yes to both questions. Again, it depends on where you're shooting and what the lighting conditions are. If in a performance, the lighting should already be paramount to your performance. If in a studio, then you can easily create your own lighting kit. What are your needs here and I can advise more accurately. But at the very least ,you'll want a stronger video lighting source ... preferably one that has it's own power.

Eavesl, why not just share with the rest of the class?

LED lights are great. Super bright and with extremely low power consumption. I had a few from Camera Bright ( camerabright.com  ) that I've even used as ad hoc flash lights! A great item to keep in the camera bag.

Well, you could make a larger softbox to wrap around it ( makezine.com/blog/archive/2...  ).

haha no dreams i dont know why i said ballet girl

James Deruvo could you please email me at ellandry@vzw.blackberry.net or aim at Jediphx2003 or msn at ellandry@hotmail.com

Not at all. You can connect your Camera directly to your HDTV and watch them that way. It's just that it's more convenient to burn a DVD. And yes, you can make an SD DVD, but you'll need to down convert the signal first. Make sure your DVD authoring software and editor have a plug in for HD. But yes, it's doable.

I'm waiting until the format wars finally die before investing in HD. What's probably going to happen is, much like DVD -R, +R, you'll end up a multi format burner that handles both or either.

It's a special set of instructions that helps the editor process the HD signal. Think of it as an interpreter translating a foreign language for you to understand. If you're planning to edit, tell us what editor you're using and we'll try and help further.

The GS500 is a nice choice if it weren't discontinued. Sure you can pick up one second hand or even refurbished, but brand new is few and far between.

I like Canon ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ). Particularly the HV20 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ). What I like about it is the ability to shoot in 24P, and widescreen for a nice film look feel. And with the optical image stabilization, it'll stay sharp should your camera man need to go hand held.

Sadly, low light performance in most cameras today is woefully lacking. But in community theater, you'll be lighting the stage so that's an advantage.

Glad to hear it. BTW - If you're happy with the answer you received, you can simply click on "Mark for best answer" bubble and it
will place the question in the "Answered" category for all to see. Thanks for posting it and Good luck!

The HV20 is a good choice if editing to a MAC. Particularly because of that 24p movie mode that makes your video look like film. Another option is the Sanyo Xacti HD2 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ), which shoots in mpeg4 on SD cards - great for sports cameras as they fit in your pocket. But it's ratings aren't very high yet.

Well, the problem you're going to run into then is that you'll have to downconvert the footage in order to burn your movies onto DVD. So, you'll lose all the HD advantage. Sure, you can connect your HV20 directly to the HDTV. That isn't an issue. But when you archive the movies to DVD, they're back to SD and there's no going back after that, unless you save the source footage on the tape or onto your PC in the original HD.

But yes, it's worth it. Very much so. Especially for sports.

oops..guess I shouldn't have asked this question HERE...I have entered it as a question on the main page...sorry all.

Since you're using Adobe Premiere, I would recommend picking up a copy of Adobe's CLASSROOM IN BOOK ( adobe.com/training/books/cl...  ) series. They are fantastic. Another option for you is VideoHelp.com ( videohelp.com  ).

According to Canon's FAQ on the issue ( usa.canon.com/consumer/cont...  ) OSX compatibility is not an issue. What you need is a 4 pin DV to 9 pin firewire cable. Plug it into the HDV DV port and insert into your MACs firewire port. (see page 75 of the manual)

Canon states that the HV20 requires no additional drivers to use with the MAC. HOWEVER, it seems to be a problem that asserts itself after installing Leopard. Connectivity can get broken when OS updates occur. Here are a few things I found which may help:

I can’t capture in Final Cut, what should I do?”

There are a great many issues that can make capture difficult in Final Cut Pro or Express. There are a number of steps to try to determine where the problem might lie. Try these first:

If this was a recent operating system update, try doing the steps in this article from the Apple Knowledge Base. If you’re uncertain whether this applies to you it’s better to do than not.

After that, you should trash your Final Cut preferences and Use Disk Utility to repair permissions. To see how to do that go here.

1. Next shut down your computer.

2. Disconnect all other devices from the computer except the keyboard and mouse.

3. Plug in deck or camera, and turn it on. If you’re using on a camera make sure it’s in VCR mode with the correct output selected. This is important for HDV cameras. If you’re using a G5 tower or a MacPro make sure the device is connected to the rear FireWire port and not the front.

4. Start up the computer and launch the application. Do not open an existing project, try simply firing up the application.

5. Set the correct settings for your media and assign your scratch.

Does the application see the device? If not, do not proceed further. Do not open the capture window. It won’t work. Check the connection on the computer and the camera and try a different cable.

Also, from what I've read, the firewire connection can be toggled on or off. So you may want to check that. Easiest way is to have your camera connected, VCR mode, powered on, then open FCE. This makes FCE connect the firewire. OR: go to View>Video OUT>Refresh Video Devices. If a tick is on Canvas Playback audio is heard from the Mac speakers and firewire is OFF. If firewire is active NO audio is heard on the Mac because firewire is Active.

Also, if you're connecting through a third party port, like a monitor USB or a hub, plug directly into the Mac - it could be that the middle man in the mix is causing you fits.

And as you mentioned, the other tip is to capture in iMovie and then import the footage into FCE. I prefer iMovie 6 mytself.

More tips can be found here ( discussions.apple.com/searc...  ) in the Apple Support forums.

Also, there's some forums about the HV20 and Final Cut here ( hv20.com/showthread.php?t=2071  ). CHeck there for more information.


Understand that this may be a 24p issue and not necessarily specific to Canon. But the issue does exist in the 24p mode.

BTW- there's an interesting video on YouTube ( youtube.com/watch?v=VN0Nw5c...  ) that talks about using HD files on the mac. Worth a watch.

The consensus is that hidef minDV tapes are largely marketing. As long as you don't shoot SD, then HD, then SD, then HD on the same tape you'll be okay.

Standard miniDV tapes shoot uncompressed, while HD - with it's larger resolution - shoots compressed in either MPEG2 or AVCHD. It may look better, but as for what tape to use, don't buy into the hype.

I don't believe the tape is anything but a recording medium. A canvas, as it were. I may be wrong here, but I don't think there's any difference other than perhaps marketing. Where you may run into an issue is what camera you use to perform the duplication. If the camera is NTSC, then you will have a problem. NTSC records at 30 fps while PAL records at 25 fps. You'd need to have it converted first.

Analog signals aren't transferred into digital bits. You will probably have to capture the footage on to your PC to make it into digital bits. You can then save it and in your editor convert it to NTSC. Then output it back to the NTSC tape.

Sounds to me like you may have found your solution, Harald!

That's what it's designed for. However, if you have a DVD burner on your computer, why go to the extra cost? But if convenience is the case, then sure, you can use the vrd-mc5, but only via USB 2.0

No. I capture directly to my PC and then burn to DVD using NERO.

I believe the camera may be able to down convert for you. But I agree with Mail, Sony hasn't released a HD version of this yet and I don't know if they even will. Only time will tell.

With what everyone has been saying is true, the Sony VRD-MC5 only does AVCHD for high def support, So since I have the Canon HF S10 HDD I can just connect it up to this Sony VRD-MC5 and have it burned to a DVD player in HD quality? or do I need special DVD's that are AVCHD compatible?

I would be looking for a camera that has an external microphone. The problem with consumer grade camcorders is the omnidirectional mics that yield less than stellar sound. Great for your average home user, but showcase a performance, your audio is equally important as the video portrayal, IMHO. With an external mic jack, you will be able to either plug in a boom mic kind of setup or at least a lav mic.

unfortunately, canon has albeit eliminated external mic jacks from their line.

Well remember you could pick up a ZR800 and it was the last one to have the external Mic in.

ok, i understand the ambient sound thing now. What Canon model would you recommend or any other mini dv for that matter.

I'm not confident either will give you the results you're looking for when it comes to working with MAC. Sony is notorious for not being that compatible with MAC, and the SR5 will only be compatible with mac via HDMI or USB for iMovie 08 - which is an extremely dumbed down version of iMovie.

Unfortunately, it seems that the GZ line of camcorders isn't much help either ... ( moviecodec.com/topics/16965...  ).

Luckily, there's a discussion about this camera at the Apple Forums. ( discussions.apple.com/threa...  ) There's a few workarounds which will require you to jump through a few hoops.

You may want to take a longer look at Canon's HG10 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ) and HV20 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ), HD cameras which seems to be much more compatible with MACs platform.

Awesome summary, Colvin. It always helps to have the fastest and largest pipeline you can afford when dealing with that kind of bandwidth.

What are my options in transfering HD movie from HG10 to DVD? What PC do I need? Can I use windows to produce HD DVD?

Sheri,

While you can edit HD on a G-4 processor based computer you will not be happy with the times it will take to get anything done, FPC 4.5 will handle high def, 5.0 is a better choice and 6.0 should do the trick. However if all you are doing is short interviews the latest iMovie should do the trick. However you should consider upgrading to a fast intel based mac or a G5, see my post above and below, I use a fast machine and HD slowes everything down to a crawl, it has over 4 times the information as regular broadcast DV and used temporal compression (across frames) so it must un-compress and re-compress the footage ever time you make an edit in a NLE. For good deals on used macs check out www.macofalltrades.com.

All the best,

Colvin

Colvin is dead on. iMovie 08 does handle AVCHD, which is the format used by the HG10. iMovie 06 can handle HD, but not the AVCHD codec. And since HD is a bandwidth hog, I agree with Colvin, you're going to want the fastest chip you can get to handle the stream.

Butch,

There are two routes to take here.

1. simply store the finished video data files as quicktime files on a dvd, in which case this disk will not be playable in a stand alone DVD player, however you will be able to load them up and play them back on a PC, distribute them to the internet etc... you can also archive your HD video files this way however this will not playback in a regular DVD player. A single layer DVD will hold 4 gigabytes of data, a DL 8.

2. purchase an HD DVD burner + HD DVD authoring software, since Blue Ray has won the format war I wouldn't consider anything else. Find the software that allows you to create a playable Blue Ray DVD from your output files created by your NLE. I have not yet taken a project to this level as I have no market for my educational videos in high def, I was also waiting for a winner in the format wars to emerge, now that that has happened I will be looking to create show in high def. I'm also waiting for the price of burners to drop a bit. Look at Sony for burners

Also, I was playing with a program called Visualhub which will convert HDV files into any format including files ready for buring to DVD. It is much faster that loading HDV files into you NLE for conversion.

Hope this helps.

Colvin

If I buy an HG10 and I want to watch my HD movies stored on a DVD as files, can I up load this back into my HG 10 to watch it on on HDTV?

Which would you recommend HG 10 or HR10 ?

Hi James !

Assuming I got an HG10, how can I watch my HD movies (home) stored in DVD as files back on my HDTV ?

Thank you for your time.

Butch

I'm a novice thinking Ill buy the HG10 and have a mac. Could I send edited files from my mac to my TV using Apple TV? Thanks for any advice.

Sorry it took me a while to check back in. Thanks James and Colvin for all your mindshare. It seems like waiting for AVCHD to be accepted more by the indie software industry would make sense. I did find out (for apple store and mac's website) that the newest FinalCut and FCP Express both have the ability to deal with AVCHD, but I don't know how long importing and exporting take. However, I noticed that there is a tremendous amount of motion blur when panning with the hard drive cameras, not sure why, but it makes me want to hold off on a purchase. I have heard that Sony is coming out with something great in April in terms of hard drive cameras and I think it might be a hybrid (able to store to disk too), but I don't recall the model name and number. What have others heard about the hd cameras and the motion blur and importing into FinalCut Express?

If memory serves, it's on the order of 13GB a minute. It's quite a hog. But it also depends on if you're recording in 720p or 1080i or even 1080p and at what quality your shooting in.

JVC states that at SP, you can get 55min of SP in 8.5 GB. But I don't believe that's uncompressed. I think that's MPEG2.

Except that this conversation is dealing with HD footage, I believe. HD is much larger. MUCH larger.

You are correct, Doug. And I meant HD footage, which is why the question pertains to the HV20, a camcorder that records in HD as well as SD, I was answering it with that in mind and as such,

Video Resolution   GB/Min   GB/Hr   
HD 1080i 8 bit    7.2    432               
HD 1080i 10 bit 4:2:2 9.3   558               
HD 1080i 10 bit 4:4:4   14.22   853               
HD 1080i 12 bit 4:4:4   16.26   975      

The HV20 shoots in 1080/60i, 1080/24P, 1080/30F, 1080/24F

Thanks for the link.

I beg to differ, Mike. The HV20 does indeed shoot in 24P. ( usa.canon.com/consumer/cont...  )

24p Cinema Mode enables all aspiring moviemakers to achieve a professional "film-look." You can change the camcorder's frame rate to 24p, which provides the same frame rate as movie film. In addition, you can use the HV20's CINE setting, which changes the color and tonal characteristics, evoking the look and feel of a movie shown in a theater. For added flexibility, these settings can be used together or independently.

Well, I think I was mislead by some research. I see what you're saying now.

I'm not sure you can use the Power PC platform with HD footage. In addition, if using FCP, users have experienced difficulty capturing the HD footage using an HV20 or HG10. Check out Apple's FCP support forums on this.

I think you're probably going to need to upgrade to a more modern platform rather than try and upgrade that 700 Mhz MAC (which was a stellar box in it's day).

Sorry! I forgot to mention, its for UK use with PAL standard.

Thanks a million,
nandrao2008

Dear James Deruvo, Thank you for your help. I am looking for few more makes with
lots of features. I wish to know which will give me best editing features? There are
other makes like Sanyo sd card based, there are models hard disc type, confused.
I have at the moment a canon mv960, DV type, it takes a long time to locate scenes.
The picture quality is not brilliant, thats the min reason, I want to go for High Definition
and quick access.


can you help James?

Thanking in advance, With Regaards, Nanda Rao

If you're talking about the external microphone jack, absolutely. Often times we've recommended that when recording concerts of anykind, and you have jack for it, plugging into the sound board can give you fantastic sound that's balanced. Just make sure you have plenty of adapter plugs on you.

Hi , Im intereste din getting this cam for recording concerts..however i need it to have a stereo jack input... and not a mono one as i will be using 2 mics one panned left and one one right to get stero sound....is this possible with this camera

Thanks
Gaz

I read an article that said there was a stereo jack input..
So basicaly i can put two mics in to my mixing desk then lead out my mixing desk into the camera.. I dont have to pan them left and right...i can record it how the sound is...is this correct?
im confused now

Thanks
Gareth

Alot of people have complained about the sound being junk. That it picks up the noise from the tape recording-moving and also zoom mechanism. You need an external mic hook up. You can do two channel BUT it WILL be in channel mono. The better shot-gun mics and such start from $50 and may end setting you back in upwards of $200. You do get what you pay for though, so make certain. Do a search on this and hopefully you find it. Amazon helped point this out to me & verified this fact.

Are you connecting via Firewire? If you have it hooked up via USB, the MAC won't see it unless you're in iPhoto as the USB port is for the still photo feature. It's a common error.

Definitely FireWire . Unless you have a Blackmagic capture card ( blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007...  ), then HDMI. But you'd know if you did. So go firewire.

4-6 pin. that's standard. the FireWire 400 port is a 6-pin on a Mac. Any 4-pin/6-pin Firewire 400 should be fine. Also note that when you are importing high definition video (over Firewire 400), the bottleneck is not the Firewire connection, but at the CPU crunching the HDV information. Since the DV port is a Firewire 400 port, using the firewire 800 port on your iMac won't buy you anything - the limitation will be on the camcorder's side.

Happy to help, A. BTW, Lala, I hope we have been able to help you here. If you're happy with the answer you received, you can simply click on "Mark for best answer" bubble and it will place the question in the "Answered" category for all to see. Or, you can leave the question open for a little while longer and see what else gets posted.

Thanks for posting it and Good luck!

Hi, Old to my Mac. New to the HV20. I've done as instructed in that I've plugged in (w/firewire) and turned on. No one sees anyone? Ideas? Plan on using IMovie unless you say otherwise.
Thanks in advance for your assistance,
Kat

You're using a PC mic. It doesn't have the proper connections and as such, all it does is mute out the sound.

Dont buy anything cheap, you do gt what you pay for here. General range is $50-$200

Thanks guys... I have bought a RODE MIC with external connection and i also bought a canon shotgun mic for the shot shoe ... I'am happy with the RODE, gives good sound with good range

Well it's certainly easier to use. ILife is a fantastic suite of programs that work seamlessly from one to the other. Imovie's capture utility is the best I've used and you can edit and then burn directly after authoring in iDVD. It's about the best you can get. Although to be fair, the latest iMovie - 08 - has been dumbed down a lot. So much so that Apple offers iMovie 06 for it's clients who aren't satisfied with it. But then again, 08 has AVCHD support and OSX is the best OS going. And Final Cut Pro is the industry standard.

I made the switch. I use both now and I'm finding myself spending more time on my MAC for video apps.

Actually, it works off a wireless controller and has a wireless IR sensor.

DOES not DOIES...my fault.

Thanks James. Where do I click best answer for you!

RRR

Not at all. The quality won't be gone. Especially if you shoot in HD. The key will be in how you encode and burn the DVDs. But being you're using a MAC, the results will be most pleasing with iMovie and iDVD. I wouldn't worry. Just avoid DVD based camcorders.

Yes. DVD camcorders are only meant for one thing ... convenience. Outside of that, if you want to shoot video and then edit it to take out wasted scenes, add titles and music, etc., you're taking a hit in video quality by shooting native with a DVD camera ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ). This is because the video on DVDs is encoded to MPEG2, a compressed format. It's great as an end of the line format, but not for shooting source footage. Likewise, hard drive based camcorders ( digitalcamera-hq.com/camcor...  ), while convenient, tend to record in MPEG2 (only JVC gives you an option to record in AVI). This gives you the same problem. Additionally, if your editor doesn't import MPEG2 footage, you will have to "re-encode" (also called demuxing) the footage into an editable format. It's a hassle for those of us who wish to edit our videos as a hobby.

One thing that needs to be considered when looking at long optical zooms is camera shake. The larger the lens, the more pronounced the camera shake is at the extreme end of the range. It's also slower in speed, which can translate to slower focusing and less light coming onto the CCD chip. For users of higher end cameras, these considerations are more important than the convenience of having a long zoom range.

I still believe that miniDV is the way to go, even in the HD world. Granted, compression isn't as much of an issue with AVCHD - which is the most popular format for hard drive camcorders. However, I still believe that convenience is the main reason to go hard drive. Also, at higher altitudes and extreme temperatures, a hard drive camcorder is a dicey affair. Whereas, with miniDV, you have more leeway in extreme situations.

As for audio quality, just about any camera that relies on an internal microphone is going to have to deal with the omnidirectional nature of it. Some have stereo mics built in and that's a good thing. But if you have a camera that has an external microphone capability? You get the best of both worlds as you can choose the mic you want to compliment the camera. Both the HV30 and HV20 have a 3.5 mm Stereo Mini-jack so you have options there for improving your audio quality.

I really don't see much in the way of difference between the HV30 and HV20 other than that with the HV30 you can switch to standard DV and shoot up to two hours of footage.

Well the thing about video is that many record the signal interlaced ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter...  ). This means that any given frame only has half the information - every other line of it. You'll have to use a technique called "interpolation" to de-interlace a frame and get the entire information in a still. And even then, the outcome won't be nearly as good as a digital still image. So make sure you get one that shoots in progressive ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progr...  ). That means in the HV20, you're going to want to be sure you're shooting in 24p.

As for low light, HD camcorder low light performance isn't that great. The technology is still too new. But the HV20 is one of the better ones.

Well, the Washington Post ( reviews.washingtonpost.com/...  ) gives it a glowing review.