Is the sd850is model worth the extra $100 over the sd750?

I have read a lot of great reviews about the sd870is model, but right as i was about to make the purchase, i saw the canon sd750 for $100 cheaper. They both have 3" screens and similar megapixils. The only difference I could see was the wide angle lens of the 850is...Does anyone know if the SD850is is really worth the extra 100 bucks, or should i go with the cheaper sd750? HELP!?

Vness,

I don't see the huge difference between the two cameras. If you really want the wider lens for landscape and large group shots, it may be the way to go. Otherwise, I would pick the less expensive camera.

Andrew

Here Andrew and I disagree, respectfully.
Try this URL for comparison of these two digitals

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_sd850is%2Ccanon_sd750&show=all

you'll have to copy and paste (sorry I don't know now to do all the tricks yet)

1. The price difference should be only $30-50 ($30 difference at Circuit City)
2. Macro on the 850is is 2 cm and the 750 is 5 cm (may not matter to you at all)
3. 8MP 870is vs 7MP 750 (small difference of no concern).
4. LCD size 2.5" on the 850is vs 3.0" on the 750 (but see number 5).
5. 870is has a viewfinder missing on the 750 due to its larger LCD.
Viewfinders are useful in bright outdoor light and whenever shooting fast moving object like cars, horses, etc. if they
are moving in a predictable way so that you can pan with the moving object.
6. Last but possibly most important is the image stabilization which allows you to take pictures at 2 or 3 stops difference which makes marginal low light conditions acceptable to the 870is and when they are not with the 750. (assumes no flash). Also helps when fully zoomed out (see number 7).
7. 870is has 4X zoom vs 3X on the 750.

Tally it all up and I judge the extra money well spent, especially if you shop around and avoid paying MSRP.
At the Cumberland General Store they say, "All goods worth price paid". I quote that to say that both these cameras are good and both are worth the price paid. I just think you'll get your moneys worth for the extra bucks the 870is costs.
Enjoy your new Christmas camera whichever one you get! Larry

I agree with Larry, except for Larry's 2 typos where he indicated 870is instead of the correct 850is, oops!
Wait a minute.. the original question mentions both the 850is and the 870is, different cameras.
The SD850is sells for $30-$50 more than the SD750, and the SD870is sells for about $100 more just as question states.

The link to the DPreview comparisons worked for me by just clicking on it.

My opinion, skip the cheapest and most expensive, and get the SD850is.

Additional observations:
850is has a faster continuous shooting mode of 1.3 frames per second (fps) vs the 750 at 1.7 fps, although it has to save 1MP more data, the 850is thinks faster and consequently may focus a little faster also. Combine this with the Image Stabilization which I think justifies the higher price by itself, the larger 4X zoom range, closer focus ability, the optical viewfinder that also justifies a $25-30 price difference by itself, and you have a fairly different camera when it comes to actual use.

Summary statement: The SD850is is both a better camera AND a better value. Anyone that uses a camera with the IS in low light situations will never look back, and likely will never consider another camera without it.

On the other hand, have you considered the "other" Canon point and shoot line?
If you are looking for an even better value than the 850is, check out the slightly larger but even better yet A720is. The A720is has all the benefits of the SD850is plus it has a 6X zoom and extremely closeup 1cm macro focus, all at the same price as the SD750. For that matter, the A570is with 4X zoom is functionally superior to the SD750 for $50 less. If you can deal with the larger size Axxx series cameras, you get better functionality for a lower price.

Hope you find what pleases you at a price that doesn't hurt!

WOW! What a mess of my typo's (and vness's), and technical errors (George, higher fps number is better). I'll try to sort out this now 5 way comparison of strong Canon cameras issue by issue. Comparing SD850is, SD750, SD870is, A570is and A720is:
MP - difference is negligible at 7MP for 750 and 570is VS 8MP for the other three.
focal length - only 870is has wide angle, only 720is has 6X tele, 750 is last place at 3X
macro - 720is best at 1cm, 870is and 850is close at 2cm, 750 and 570is last at 5cm
max. aperture - 570is best wide at 2.6 (all others close at 2.8) - 720is best tele at 4.8 (750 close at 4.9, 870is last at 5.8)
fps - best=1.7 for 750 and 570is; worst=other 3 at 1.3
video - only 850 has time lapse ability; only 750 takes 160X120 @ 15fps; only 570 takes 640X480 @ 60fps
viewfinder - only on 850is, 570is and 720is (cameras with 2.5" LCD's)
3 inch LCD - only on 750 and 870is (cameras without viewfinders)
LCD pixels - best=750, 850is and 870is at 230,000; worst= 570is and 720is at 115,000 (visible difference)
Weight and size clearly Ultra compact for SD's and compact for A's as expected
face detection technology - all three SD's
manual focus control - both A's
manual exposure control - only on 570is
cost - room for argument here: at first glance the A's are cheapest, but after adding cost of AA NiMH batteries and charger (unless you already have those) the price difference is suddenly much closer but the 870is clearly the most expensive and the 720is next to most.
All data is per dpreview (which is sometimes incorrect I admit. please feel free to correct and critique me).
Now all you have to do is pick the items most important to your style of photography and narrow your choices down to 1 or 2 before going to the store to try the fit and feel in the hand (and wallet).
Thanks to George for catching my typo's and adding the A models to the mix.
How about it vness? Which camera do you like best?
Whew, Larry

Great job Larry! I am so embarrassed about my backwards statement about 1.3 vs 1.7 fps, it's not like me.

I only have one correction/addition to Larry's excellent list, Face detection is on all 5 cameras we are talking about.

So many similarities and yet differences, no wonder people come here asking for advice. Hope all this helps!

No option to edit my last post so I have to do it here:
George is absolutely correct - All 5 of these cameras have face detection systems.
Thanks George for catching that.
Larry

Now I am even more confused as to which camera to buy! Sounds like they all have advantages & disadvantages. Canon 750 - no IS but has 3" screen - does it have viewfinder & does one really need that if the cameras LCD screens have improved. Canon 850 - has everything I would pretty much want but only has the 2.5" screen - downfall ?? Canon 870 - more expensive so which is best. Need help!

cjp54

Hi Carol,
When shopping for digital cameras, it is ALWAYS advantages and disadvantages/pros and cons. There is no escaping that aspect. Sooooo, you really have to begin thinking about what subjects you like to photograph, under what conditions, and how you plan to grow your photography hobby in the future/what directions you would like to go with it. Along with those conditions, you have to account for your budget, ability/willingness to lug equipment vs ship the thing in your pocket and go, etc..... No one can weigh these pros and cons for you because only you know the answers for yourself. What we can do is help you get the facts which will help you narrow the choices by eliminating some cameras based on their weaknesses and boost others based on their strengths. Eventually, you get it down to 2 or 3 and you go to the store and see how they feel in your hands thereby eliminating another one or two. So let's look again ---

LCD's -- If it is at least 2.5" that's enough, especially with at least 200,000 pixels and a good reputation for brightness.
viewfinder -- needed for fast moving subjects like horses and race cars plus useful in bright light conditions. Also, if you are already used to having a viewfinder you are much more likely to miss it if it is suddenly not there just out of habit.
Size -- the Canon Axxx models (compact) are larger than the Canon SDxxx models (ultra-compact).
wide angle -- great for group photos and landscapes and only found (in this group of cameras) on the SD870is
zoom -- obviously for getting up close when you can't get physically up close -- 870is and 750 zoom to 105mm, SD850is and A570is zoom to 140mm, and A720is zooms up to 210mm (6X). Other Canon models not considered here have 10X and 12X zooms.
manual exposure controls -- especially useful for low light and moving subjects (kids/animals) as well as expanding your abilities/skills in photography.
macro -- taking those really up close pictures of small and very small objects -- A720is, SD850is and SD870is
You might say, "I want as much camera as I can afford". OK. How much can you afford?
Do you want a "better" camera even if it is larger? Canon S5is?
Grind these factors around some so you begin to really know what you desire in your camera (rather than simply trying to find the "best" camera).
Keep up the good work and don't worry about being overwhelmed -- that too will pass.
Larry

850is vs. 870is:
The 850is is the only one with time lapse - what is that and why is that important or not? The 850is also has orientation sensor - what is that and why is that important or not? Why would you need a viewfinder for fast moving object? Why would the LCD on the 870is not be able to capture or take a picture of a fast moving object as would a viewfinder? Is it also not true that the LCD on the 870is has been made to refract light so that it now can be viewed even under bright sunlight and thereby eliminaing the use for the viewfinder? Finally, how does the macro work on both cameras? I went to Circut City to try out the cameras and 2 sales people could not figure out how to take a macro shot. It always appeared fuzzy when getting close with the camera and on the LCD when the camera took a macro shot using the macro setting. Is there some other setting that needs to be set in addition to setting it at the macro icon? And both cameras do not have panorama. Is the wide angle on the 870is a replacement or a subsitute that is supposed to perform a panorama shot? And the 850is has no such panorama abilities? I have narrowed my choice of camera to the above 2. Thanks.

On a macro setting, you could have severe camera shake issues because of the extreme close ups. It is better to shoot on a tripod in that mode. The wide angle lens just opens the lens up more, it doesn't necessarly work like a "wide screen" tv. Its just a shorter focal length that will capture more in the photo. You can crop down to a panorama style after downloading the photos to your computer.

If I had to pick between your two choices, I would go with the Canon SD850 IS. I like the optical viewfinder for use in bright situations and the manual exposure capabilities for exposing to my likes, not just the auto feature. I hope this helps.

Andrew

Great thread, very detailed and good answers, helped me alot to norrow it down to two Canon alternatives. SD750 and SD870is.
However, not surprisingly i still have some minor questions to come up with only one.

I currently own a SD630 and cant be more happy with it. However its time to upgrade.

Is it safe to assume every new camera (SD series at least) must be better than my 630, right, or 630 is special, a one off wonder or something?
There are newer cameras from canon than my choices, but the difference in specs did not justify the price imo (mostly mp's and new model values) at least if i do not need more than 8mps, am i right?

In the market the price difference is nearly $150 between the mentioned two.
So my question is, if you'll be kind to answer, considering i want a 3" lcd, and like taking macro shots, does,

a small difference in max resolution, (actually both more than enough)
1mp more, (does it make a real difference?)
28mm over 35mm, (don't know what that is, is it better large or small?)
Image Stabilization, (might be nice but i'm not shaky)
2cm over 5cm macro zoom, (that looks important, its 3cm even at SD630)?
aperture range difference 2.8-5.8 on 870 vs 2.8-4.9 on 750, (have no idea, is it the wideangle thing, unless it lets me take fish-eye style it doesn't matter)
and
faster continuous shots: 1.3fps vs 1.7fps (its 2.1fps at SD630 so doesn't matter, both faster than the old one)

differences justify paying extra $150..?

Answer to self: Dude, if you like taking macro shots so much and can pay the difference, go with 870 is.
Besides it has i.stabilization, newish model, high mp, weather you use it or not better group shots with wideangle and if necessary can even photograph "RoadRunner" on chase with that fast continuous shot specs..

But i'm not a pro, and $150 is nearly twice as much??? ($199 vs $349)

thanks in advance

nd,
By just looking at the specs listed at dpreview.com, it is difficult for me to get excited about you replacing your camera, especially since you like it. Let me arbitrarily add the SD800is into the mix of choices--that gives us 4 cameras to compare - 630, 750, 800is and 870is.
1) Your camera has the fastest frames shot per second in continuous mode. It's the best of the 4. Higher fps is better. Yours wins!
2) The SD800is is the only one with a viewfinder which is nice for certain shots such as fast moving objects with a predictable trajectory. This includes race cars and race horses among others. It can be an advantage in bright light also.
3) SD800is and SD870is have image stabilization which is also very nice in certain conditions such as low light shooting without flash and maximum zoom without a tripod. If shooting your 630 hasn't been a problem without is it may be because of the next issue 4)
4) Your camera has 6MP which is the most you should have for the size CCD on these cameras IF you care about shooting in low light conditions without flash. Going above 6MP reduces the physical size of each individual pixel and thereby reduces its light sensitivity. That is one of the reasons they had to add image stabilization to partially make up for that problem.
5) The SD800is and SD870is have the wide angle 28mm lens which is helpful for group photos and increases your level of creativity since you can get closer to a foreground object while still maintaining the background focus. That can create some dramatic views as seen at kenrockwell.com in his section on wide angle photography.
6) All four cameras have the same telephoto maximum zoom at 105mm which is nothing to brag about.
7) Macro on your camera goes down to 3cm and the 870is goes down to 2cm. Unless you really need that extra cm I wouldn't volunteer to pay extra for it.
8) Aperture on your camera is 2.8-4.9 which wins again. For this number, smaller is better so you have the best of the 4. However, it is a trade-off on the 800 and 870 because they have the 28mm wide angle yet maintain the 105mm zoom which causes the increase in aperture number at the max zoom position.
9) Now to answer your specific questions:
a) It is NOT safe to assume newer SDxxx Model Canon cameras must be better than your 630.
b) You only need more than your current 6MP IF you print enlargements above 8X10 inches OR if you do a lot a cropping and then enlarge above 5X7 inches.
c) 1MP does not make an improvement other than b) above. Plus, keep in mind 4) above.
d) 28mm (wide angle) is better than 35mm IMHO for creativity and versatility.
e) Image Stabilization does more than just make up for visibly "shaky hands". We all shake the camera more when holding it away from our face using the LCD for framing the picture (as compared with holding it close in and using the viewfinder on the SD800is). This "micro" shaking (not visibly by just looking at the hands) gets magnified by zooming (especially above 4X) and can slightly blur the picture causing a soft appearance instead of the sharp,crisp look we all strive for. Also, this micro shaking is much more noticeable in low light due to the longer shutter times. Image Stabilization can improve this problem to the equivalent of having 2-3 full stops more light. Not life shattering, but it can make a marginal picture look totally fine or improve an unacceptable picture up to acceptable level in a difficult situation.
f) As I mentioned above, 2cm is not much difference than 3cm on macro UNLESS macro is a big deal for your shooting style. Have you noticed with your SD630 that you just can't get the close in Macro shots you really want? If not, then don't worry about it.
g) The 2.8-4.9 specification is the Aperture range which measures how wide open the camera's iris can go. Smaller number means bigger opening and therefore more light gets let in which is very useful in low light conditions. (For dSLR's and 35mm film cameras, it also gives the ability to blur the background while keeping the object of desire in focus. This effect is called depth of field. This doesn't apply so much to ultra-compact digitals.)
h) The fish-eye type picture has to do with the wide angle lens measured in mm. Typical is 35mm. Wide angle is 28mm or less. Fish-eye is around 18mm or less. (This is totally different from the Aperture).
i) Faster continuous shots is better and here a higher number is better. Your camera is the fastest of the 4.
j) Regarding "Answer to self" -- If you like macro shots so much get a camera that can go down to 1cm or less. And, the SD870is is the slowest of the 4 on continuous shooting because it has 8MP and takes more time to process each picture before it can go on to the next shot. Use your SD630 on the RoadRunner.
Summary:
Since your camera doesn't have a viewfinder and you didn't mention it as a problem, we'll forget about the viewfinder on the SD800is.
IMHP, you won't really notice any improvement from 6 to 7 or even 8MP.
If you insist on upgrading, get a camera with good image stabilization (not all are as good as a Canon).

Tell me what you don't like about your SD630 OR what is it that has you wanting to "upgrade" and I might be able to help you better.
For now I would suggest shooting with your current camera until you find something it won't do that you really want to do.
And be sure to tuck that saved money away for later when you do decide to upgrade. :)
Larry

Larry,
First off, thank you for your very informative and nicely settled answer.
If i was giving an answer on a subject i'm knowledgeable of i would have given with the same depth and pattern, so thank you very much for such an answer i ever dream of having when i post a question on line, you have missed nothing :)

My problem is, when i am on the market for anything, i do alot of research and try to find the best unit for my needs (either a camera, a laptop or a car), so when it comes a time to change i struggle to find a replacement. From your answer, i understand that i did exactly that again, (with lots of help from sensible guys like you), which, is a very good thing for a consumer i guess.

Now, to main subject:
My mom have a Nikon S3 and i have the canon. (As you might have known, even comparing Nikon to canon is an insult.)
So, she told me that she want a camera that can take fast shots like they take on model shoots, click click click style, not necessarily continuous but, at nikon you have to wait 3sec to take a shot and another 5sec to take second. And that's a long time when she wants to take pictures of her 2yo nephews pix, i tell you, they are nearly as fast as road runner the new born's :)
So, even with my best effort i wasn't able to convince her that new digital cameras (unless they are professional) can take fast shots like the old mechanical ones.
So i decided to give her my canon, which is considerably faster than nikon (even faster than new canons as you have mentioned), and buy myself something new thinking that with the speed in technology i surely will find a better one in reasonable price range. (I will be able to sell nikon for $125, so i wont feel guilty buying nearly the same canon as mine with paying €150ish on top of nikon).
However, as before mentioned, if i'm going to buy a new camera i want it be better than my original.
So this is my story.

The way i see it i have/had two options:
1: Give canon to mom and go buy a new one for $250ish (oh, maybe $300 with some store credit or rebate)
2: Keep the canon and buy a new one for mom.

You know my options on first choice. As i don't care about the viewfinder (actually i dislike it, messes the style i guess, did i mentioned i'm not a pro :)), sadly i have to go 750 or 870is.
From your answers, it seems the only good/mentionable points of 870 over 750 are: image stabilization, wide angle (kinda nice) and macro.
Actually, for an amateur like me, 1cm looks like it wont make a difference, with practice, tripod and good lightning i guess i can have pictures better with 2cm macro than 1cm without practice etc, but can i take better pix with 5cm (750) than 630 (3cm). And by practice i don't mean going crazy, i'm sure you can have better macro shots with 10cm better than me with 3cm, i guess you got my point ;)
And vice versa; 750 have the "good"aperture as 630 (2.8-4.9) and, hmm, besides being cheaper, nothing more.. (did i get it right?)
And both cameras are slover than mine fps vise. (i kinda get used to it in 2 years, can i feel the slow fps difference??)

So, its safe to say that, if there was not that much of price difference, 870 is a better choice than 750 but not much than 630.
If 850 was $229 (not $300ish) vs 750 $179, i guess i should have jumped on it, right?

So what to do?

And my second choice:
So, if i keep my canon i would/could like to go cheaper with my choice.
She wont matter the 3"LCD (actually being an oldtimer she would like viewfinder), and do not need lots of gimmicks (most standard), hence A570is looks like a good option, but its bigger and no lithium. The size is deal breaker but price is looking yummy.

Knowing my dilemma and camera, can you advise a line like that (you kinda did, but this one has a twist in it :):
nd, there is no use to give $300 for a new canon that has nearly the same performance as yours.
Keep your beloved canon and buy your moms a 750. Its light, big screen, not noticeable slower between shots than yours (but very noticeably faster than nikon) and save yourself a grief.
You pay $50+nikon and save that $150 to add to canons sale when you want/there is a REALLY better alternative than yours or when the prices of 870is falls to $229 as you have mentioned. Oh, and don't bother thinking that moms canon is newer than yours, cause, yours is actually better...
Or, for mom, XXX brand XXX model is actually better/as equal on your moms specified needs (high fps, light, 2,4"+LCD, img.stabilisation is a plus and max $200), so check them out..

I don't mind to use an older machine than moms surely but i just want the machine be used as it was intended, such as i wont buy an SLR (what a neat name) to mum just because she likes to take fast shots..

Hope this clears things more for your next answer, which i cant wait

cheers
nd

ps: man i write!

Guess i'm going to go SD750 for moms (3" LCD, nice fps, good aperture and easy to justify price) and keep my 630 for near future..

So now I have the whole story and I have to please you AND your mom! :)
Yes -- I think you got it right on your summary comparison.
As far as the fps comparison -- remember that speed only applies in continuous shoot mode. Yes, you will be able to tell the difference 2.1 vs 1.3. Maybe not so much 2.1 vs 1.7.
Yes -- if not much of a price difference go for the 870is over the 750.

I think mom will like the 750. Be sure to show her how to get the continuous shoot mode to work.

Thanks again Larry,

One last question, you dont need to answer, what is the speed on "not continious" (seperatly taken but one after another) shots on canons? Cause i guess thats what counts really..
I know its considerably faster than nikon and whatever the answer might be it seems the best choise is still gonna be 750, but, hey, cant blame a man for trying :)

cheers
nd

Thanks so much to everyone who kept up this chain. It's wonderful to learn that others have the same questions I do, and to get great answers!

I'm looking to buy my first digital camera (upgrading from <gasp> film) and am deciding between the SD 750 and SD870. (Clearly, I don't take a lot of pictures.) My preference is the 750 due to price and style. But, I'm not sure if I need the stabilization. Also, some reviews I have read say that there is a blue or purple "halo" around bright objects and that the images can be blurred around the edges with the 750. Does that make this camera a bad option for me? I got great service from a local camera store that sells 750 for $200 and the 870 for $300. Though I *hate* to overpay, I think it could be worth it in this case to make sure businesses with live customer service survive.

Again, thanks to everyone who took the time to provide such great information!

AP,
I'm with you on the concept of service. With that in mind, you could stop in at your local camera store and try out the two cameras you are considering. Since you are concerned about some potential weak points on the SD 750 take some shots to highlight those weaknesses. Some stores will even make a few prints for you (even if you have to pay for them it would be well worth it) to see how much those areas of concern affect the pics. If the SD 750 pictures pass inspection, you are ready to buy, and if not, then it's on to testing out the SD870.
Service and "returnability" are huge factors in my evaluation before a purchase.

nd,
I have been unable to find data on the shot-to-shot time on NON-continuous mode for the SD750. sorry.

Wow! This is my first use of a message board and you have exceeded my expectations. Larry, thanks so much for the good advise. I will do just that. Thanks for your thoughts on supporting the local company. I also learned that if I buy the camera from them I am eligible to take 4 camera classes (otherwise cost $40/each.) They are 1.5 hours long and offered at multiple times and locations! Definitely seems worth the investment.

Also, I will ask about a return policy. I hadn't gotten that far in my thought process.

AP,

This is he who referred you to the local store. You are not overpaying if you take advantage of the free classes. You do not get them when you buy one at the "local" big electronics store that HQs near the airport or if you buy it online. Plus if you have questions about the camera in the future, you can go into the store and ask the questions there without feeling guilty that you are using them for their expertise and not giving them business.

I do not know their return policy, but you could ask them if you could try it around town. If you see the "halos" in your pictures, can you return it so you can buy the more expensive one. They may allow you to do that. Again that would be something you could not do so easily with an online store.

Larry,

Thanx for the fallow up.
My old lady liked the 870s round edges better so we bought that one.
Havent tried it yet but i'm sure she will be pleased and i too am happy to hold on to my beloved 630, maybe i bother you again in the future if i choose to go the SLR way.
Thanx again for everything.

cheers..

Larry,

I bought the 750! After I had made the decision to pay for service, the model went on close out and was reduced $20 to $179! It's returnable and comes with how to use classes!

Thanks so much for all of your help!