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Nina (Nina) 34 pts

September 26, 2008 3:44 PM

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sd990is vs sd880is

What makes the 990 a better or worse choice than the new 880. The 880 seems to have a larger lcd (although at the same number of pixels as the 990's 2.5 in one), a wide lens 28mm vs 35 and a different sensor -- although disrearding the megapixels, I'm not sure how to evaluate this. help?

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Aditya D (Adhere) 7462 pts

September 30, 2008 2:18 PM

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I would definitely go with the SD880 IS because, since more megapixels are overkill in the 990, the wide angled lens and the extra zoom of the 880 will amount to a lot more. The longer zoom means that you can get a picture further away, and the wide angle means that at a lower zoom you can get a wide ratio aspect, allowing you to capture wide images, such as large groups of people and landscapes.

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Nina (Nina) 34 pts

September 30, 2008 3:10 PM

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Thank you so much Aditya. The SD880 does seem to have some definite pluses, but what about the sensor size? Does the fact that the 990's 1/1.7 sensor is packed with all those megapixels negate the better size versus the 1/2.3 of the 880? And would you ever consider the older 950 or are the advances of digic 4 too important to pass up?

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

September 30, 2008 6:23 PM

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I'm not a fan of larger LCDs. First off, they're not THAT large, so you don't get much advantage when looking at details. The LCD is really more for just the comfort of knowing that the camera has taken the picture. But large LCDs have the disadvantage of draining the battery faster. And battery drain means less time taking pictures.

As for larger sensor ... if it's stuffed with even more MP, then the advantage is negated. The argument is essentially this: CCD chips on point and shoot cameras a smaller and as such, fitting in more pixels causes them to lose light
sensitivity. Sure, there’s more data on the chip, but the chip can’t absorb the light data and what it ends up with is a picture that has more noise than image quality.

In addition, the more megapixels a camera has, the larger the lens it needs to provide the clarity it deserves and prevent diffraction due to a loss of detail with smaller apertures. But since we’re talking portable point and shoots here, those large lenses simply aren’t being made.

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Aditya D (Adhere) 7462 pts

September 30, 2008 7:42 PM

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The Digic 4 over the Digic 3 is definitely an upgrade, and I would try and stick with the newer 990 or 880 because of it. As far as sensor size vs megapixels, I agree with James.

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Adam 1 pts

October 3, 2008 11:36 PM

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What about changing the resolution of the pictures when you take them, making them like a 7MP size instead of the standard 14.7MP on the sd990? I'm wondering if it would coincide with the CCD image quality deterioration as more MP are added and essentially allow the sensor to collect 7MP and create cleaner pictures. I know 14.7 MP is excessive and only makes the images more noisy and huge file sizes, but I do want all of the other features that the 990 has without the completely ridiculous and wasteful 14.7MP. I would like to try this out and see if it makes a difference but my camera is broken and that's why I am looking for a new one.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

October 4, 2008 12:12 AM

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Well that comes with it's own problems. Essentially, the image is reduced to the set quality after it has been processed by the CCD. As such, the light still goes through those pixels, only that after some basic processing steps pixels "thrown out" to make the image to the desired setting and size. This process is called "Choking" and that will cause Artifacting and noise. Additionally, you'll also loose details of the recorded image.

Some cameras have written into their firmware a process called "binning," which merges the signals of multiple pixels to make larger pixels. Usually at a 4-1 ratio. This will essentially turn a 12-megapixel camera into a 3-megapixel camera. And that gives you the opposite problem of too many pixels on the chip ... you now have too few and as such, will run into artifacting instead of noise.

And I'm not even talking about issues pertaining to not having a large enough lens to handle the increased MP either.

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David 7 pts

October 16, 2008 7:54 AM

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The argument regarding too many megapixels is both right and wrong here. Yes, cramming more megapixels onto a sensor can be a bad thing - there is a point of diminishing return and a point of no return. However, in this case it may be apples to oranges - meaning you can't fairly compare. If you took two cameras - one with 8 or 10 megapixels and then compared it with a camera with 14.7 megapixels crammed onto the same size sensor - then yes - you would sacrifice quality for megapixels. But if the camera with the 14.7 megapixels has "crammed" those extra megapixels onto a larger sensor - then it is no longer a fair comparison, because the extra room on the larger sensor could be enough to compensate for the extra megapixels. Then it becomes a question of basic math - how many pixels crammed into how much space - the same due to an increase in the sensor size or more due to the same sensor size. Also - less megapixels does not mean bad pictures either - those absolutely stunning photographs taken by the Mars Lander of the surface of Mars - were taken with the landers onboard camera - which was a ONE megapixel camera. Granted the sensor was much larger, etc - but it proves a valid point. The best way to tell is to look at actual samples of the pictures the camera takes and read reliable reviews, not just postings raving or trashing a camera by lots of faceless people who wouldn't know where to begin when it comes to really evaluating a cameras performance. Buy one from a store with a good return policy. If you don't like it - return it and get a different camera. Try the camera in the store before you buy it. These are all options that will help.

As for me - I bought the 990 IS and am very pleased. This after two Sony point and shoots - neither of which lasted beyond a little over a year before dying. If you want a camera buy it from a company that knows cameras - Nikon and Canon, etc. Look at the 990 and 880 and see what features may be more important to you. Are you making 4x6's and 8x10's or do you want to make 16x20's? Honestly, there are 6 megapixel cameras out there that would blow the doors off many 8 and 10 megapixel cameras you could find.

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Aditya D (Adhere) 7462 pts

October 16, 2008 10:02 AM

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David, James and I have actually been arguing that point back and forth for a while, and I guess the biggest part of it is where exactly do you draw a line between too many pixels for an given size of sensor. I think the argument from many will keep going back and forth in either direction, because, like you said, each side is valid given the circumstance. Thanks for replying and giving and input on your opinoin.

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Dirty.Taint 1 pts

October 16, 2008 8:07 PM

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Well, if you were purchasing a camera right now, which would it be 880 or 990?

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Aditya D (Adhere) 7462 pts

October 16, 2008 10:33 PM

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Definitely the 880, for reasons you can look above that James and I listed, if you want some more detailed explanations we can do that as well.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

October 17, 2008 1:08 PM

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Indeed we have, Aditya. But it's an important point that every camera buyer should consider. And when you compare it to say, the G9, which uses a similar size chip, then yes, you begin to run into the same issues. Especially when some are complaining about purple fringing in the G10 now.

Then, there's the fact that you won't even SEE that extra mp in 99.9% of your pictures because they're just snapshots. IN fact, you won't see the diff until you reach sizes above 11x14. How often will that happen? So, in the end, you end up paying for something you can't use or appreciate.

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thec2u 2 pts

October 26, 2008 6:39 AM

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I would go for the older SD950 with the titanium casing. It is nicer, rugged and much better built than the SD990 and SD880. The newer digic 4 chip does not mean you will get better pictures. The SD950 has the same size sensor (and lens) as the SD990 but with less MP(same sensor as the G9). With 12 MP its has a pixel density of 28 MP/sq.cm vs 35 MP/sq.cm for both the SD990 and SD880. Less MP is better for cameras with small sensors. The reviews on the SD950 are very good and it cost less than the SD990.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

October 31, 2008 1:20 AM

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All math aside, however, also it's important to remember that with snapshots consisting of 99.9% of all digital shots, any MP over 6 is really overkill unless your planning enlargements of 8x10 or above. So, a 12MP camera is kinda like driving a Ferrari in the city. Sure you can do it, but you don't really experience all it can give you or paid for.

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David 7 pts

October 31, 2008 5:39 AM

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well, I've been shooting with the Sdd990 is now since the day it arrived in stores and I'm very pleased. Like any previous point and shoot I leave it in program mode and shoot at the lowest ISO - but then again, I also shoot my dSLR at the lowest ISO, since no matter the camera, lowest ISO will always deliver the best results as far as noise is concerned. From my experience shooting a few hundred shots with the SD990 IS - I am very pleased and happy with the results it delivers. If you're really concerned about high iso noise performance, you really shouldn't be shooting with any point and shoot then and should be using a good dslr for that

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Joe 0 pts

October 31, 2008 4:57 PM

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I just have a quick question for you guys. I am also have the dilemma on which camera should i go for. The reason I'm confused is because i got a good deal for the SD 990 which brings its price down close to the price of the SD 880. Do you think that that would make the SD 990 more attractive? I'm not concentrating on the money aspect i just want to buy a good quality camera. I'm also a scuba diver so a camera that takes better quality underwater pictures would be my preference regardless of price. Thanks guys

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David 7 pts

October 31, 2008 6:30 PM

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Canon makes an underwater housing for the 990 IS and it has an underwater setting (scene mode, I believe)

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Joe 0 pts

November 1, 2008 1:37 AM

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both of them have underwater scene modes and underwater casings. I wanted to know if the different specifications would make a better underwater camera and if the SD990's price was clost to that of the SD880 would it make the SD990 a better buy. Thanks

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David 7 pts

November 1, 2008 6:55 AM

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Since I don't own an 880 I didn't know it had those options. I own a 990 and it is an excellent camera. As for whether the specs would make one better than the other - I highly doubt it. They're both point and shoots, probably use the same algorythm to process the underwater scene mode and probably both have the same lens. So while I think it's doubtful the end result of an underwater image shot with either would be different, it also a question to which no one can give you a truly accurate answer unless they've shot both underwater. My ASSUMPTION would be no difference. As for whether cost makes one a better buy that the other, again, only you can answer that by deciding whether the cost difference is worth what ever features the 990 has that the 880 doesn't etc. I would think that if the zoom range was different, that for underwater photography you would want which ever had the wider zoom range (and the widest angle setting.

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Joe 0 pts

November 1, 2008 2:32 PM

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Thank you by the way for all your help. I want to stress that im not getting the camera just for underwater pictures i want a good all around camera. I'm not a professional photographer i just need a good camera that i can take with me on vacation special occasions etc if it takes good underwater pics then that's an added bonus..Since you are a 990 owner was it worth the money you paid for it? do you consider it a very good buy? and which has the wider zoom and the widest angle?

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David 7 pts

November 1, 2008 2:52 PM

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990 focal length = 36-133mm
880 focal length = 28-112mm

The 880 is slightly wider at the wide end, though they're close, the 990 has a slight edge at the long end.

As for was it worth the money or a good buy. I think so. I'm at about 200 pictures with it and it takes beautiful pictures. I couldn't be happier.

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thec2u 2 pts

November 1, 2008 2:59 PM

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This thread may be helpful if image quality is what you are looking for:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=29585999

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Lor 0 pts

November 1, 2008 5:28 PM

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I currently own a Canon SD 630, but am interested in upgrading now (would really like IS as the 630 does not have this).

I do like the Canon Elph series, always very good products.

Would it be worth the upgrade to the 990? I am a bit apprehensive about so many MP on such a small CCD, but I do see the 990's CCD is larger than the 880s (and my current 630). For those that own the 990...how is picture noise in lower light conditions?

I also like the 880, but I have to say the tiny flash on it concerns me a bit. Less MO, but a smaller CCD so I expect the MP/size issue would pretty much be wash b/w the 880/990.

OK, so in short:

1) Upgrade from SD630 to SD 990IS - worth it?
2) Image noise - 990 - How is it? I've heard very good things about the digic 4 processor in dealing with noise

Thanks to anyone who helps me out here, much appreciated.

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thec2u 2 pts

November 1, 2008 6:33 PM

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It has been said that the new Digic 4 help to control noise and is faster than the Digic 3. Perhaps the SD990 need it more because of the 14.7 MP on a small sensor. Go for the SD880 if wide angle is important to you but be aware that it does not have the build quality or decent flash. I go with the SD950 over the SD990 based on the titanium body, overall build quality and the consumer and professional reviews. It is also cheaper and has all that I need in a point and shoot. I have a DSLR for all the other versatilities but this one travels with me most of the time.

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Lor 0 pts

November 1, 2008 7:26 PM

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So you're saying the 880 does not have a decent flash?
PS - The 950 isn't even an option as it really can't be found anywhere...it's an older model.

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thec2u 2 pts

November 1, 2008 10:50 PM

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I rely on user comments such as this:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/read_opinion_text.asp?prodkey=canon_sd880is&opinion=41511

Also you can buy the SD950 online:
http://www.dpreview.com/shop/merchants.asp?id=canon_sd950is

Newer models are not necessarily better. Buy whatever you think is best for your needs.

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L 0 pts

November 2, 2008 11:04 AM

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thats all fine and well but this does not answer any of the Q's I asked...

And yes, the newer models with the Digic 4 processors are better

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

November 4, 2008 2:50 PM

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Lor, you should be concerned on that. Stuffing tiny CCDs with that many megapixels will make the CCD LESS sensitive to light, not more. And that will invite more noise to the party at higher ISOs and in low light. When you consider that you'll be shooting underwater, low light will be pretty much the norm. So you've got an uphill battle with that many MP.

I'd recommend to take a look at the G9. It has a much larger chip. But I'm not sure there's a housing for it.

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thec2u 2 pts

November 4, 2008 7:05 PM

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YOU CAN GET THE WP-DC21 UNDERWATER HOUSING/CASE FOR THE CANON G9 DIGITAL CAMERA.

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Cruiznbye (Cruiznbye) 1086 pts

November 19, 2008 4:44 PM

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It is interesting that most people have not shot with both the 880 and the 990 side by side as to make comparisons. I bought both, with 90 day return on both) and have shot well over 400 shots on each of them side by side for comparison. Believe me when I say, the 990 will capture more detail, handle higher ISO better (up to 400) and overall best the 880 in nearly every situation. I hear all the arguments about "overstuffing" pixels, but for me the real issue is what kind of actual photos do I get when I take the pictures. The is a great camera, smaller and bigger LCD screen and bigger wheel and buttons for control. And in good light takes fantastic pictures. But if the light is average or less, the 990 wins every single time in details, clarity, and lower noise over the 880 in the exact same instance. I'm returning the 880 and keeping the 990, and the simple reason is the photos do show a great difference between them. Theories aside, I go with actual photos taken side by side every time. Digic 4 is absolutely great, and on the 990 it is put to full use with the slightly larger sensor. The 990 actually has less pixels per square centimeter than the 880 (34mp per square cm vs. 35mp per square cm on the 880). So overstuffing really is not the issue to discuss. Happy photos folks, keep on clicking.

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Erik 0 pts

November 27, 2008 9:05 PM

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Steve,

Where did you purchase the camera with a 90 day return policy?

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C Shah 0 pts

November 27, 2008 11:24 PM

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Thanks Steve for the insight. Thanks everyone else for their views too. I am looking to buy a new Canon camera. My question is how much difference does 28mm vs. 36mm make? I am looking for a camera to provide great outdoor daylight and nice indoor low-light pictures. Is the 28mm for 880 worth trading for all the other advantages of 990 that Steve mentioned. I compared the Powershot cameras on Canon's website and my main considerations are focal length, zoom, low-light conditions (no metric on Canon's website) and price.

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Matt (DisneyFreak777) 38 pts

November 28, 2008 2:59 AM

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This source has a side-by-side comparison of the 2 cameras, and it clearly shows that the SD880 is better in every way except image quality (that is if you think the 990 has better image quality). Also note that the macro mode in the 880 is significantly better:

SD880 SD990
2 - 50 cm 5 - 50 cm
0.8 - 20.4 in 2.0 - 20.4 in

I think that's what did it for me, now I plan to get the SD880, because I don't think its worth it to spend $100 more for the 990 just for "image quality", especially when the 880 has all these things on its side (wide-angle lens, about .5X more zoom, better macro range, 1/4 of an inch less thicker, and a bigger screen, though that could probably drain the battery).

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Cruiznbye (Cruiznbye) 1086 pts

November 28, 2008 1:21 PM

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Erik,
Costco.com has both cameras and they offer a 90 day return period on all cameras. They have the best return policy out there currently, and also have the best price other than some discount online sellers.

C Shah,
In my opinion the difference in 28mm vs. 36mm depends on what type of photo subjects you are working with. The 28mm is great for wide, more panoramic and indoor (close quarters rooms) when you need to get a wider view. On the other hand the difference in many shots is not great, and the beginning at 36mm, the 990 will zoom in a little more closely than the 880. But again, that only matters if you can't walk 15' closer or farther away for the shot on either camera. I found the difference between 4X and 3.7X zoom to be insignificant. And I was pleasantly shocked to find that digital zoom was actually useful at times (I have never been satisfied with digital zoom before) on both cameras. That was a pleasant shock.

In dim interior light, hand hand, neither camera will get fantastic results. Use the flash, brighten the room, use a monopod or tripod, or at least steady it on something and you'll get good shots. Avoid going above ISO 400 if possible on all shots if you want good, usable larger photos.

As far as the macro, the 880 is slightly better in close distance from the object, but remember with the 880 you are starting wider to begin with , where the 990 you start closer in focal length, so you need to be closer with the 880 than with the 990 to get the same magnification. It is simply the focal length of the lens, nothing better or worse with either camera.

As for as the 990 advantage, one that is overlooked is the small (but usable) viewfinder on the 990. You can use "quickshot mode" and take faster continuous shots because the LCD is turned off and you use the viewfinder. Also you can turn the LCD off on the 990 at anytime and continue to take shots with the viewfinder and in bright light, or when saving battery power, that makes a huge difference. In trade off you get a 2.5" LCD on the 990 instead of the 3.0" on the 880. In my opinion the smaller screen with the viewfinder works better, though some will like the larger screen on the 880.

Again, both cameras are the best Elphs to date and few have been dissatisfied with image quality or features on either one. BTW, Costco.com has lowered the price of the 990is by $20.00 making it only $70.00 different in cost over the 880is. Again, good choice for either one, especially if you like the Canon interface and controls.

Outdoors, either is great. Indoors, the 990 appears to best the 880 much of the time in image quality. At times, you won't tell the difference between the two images, or so slight as to be meaningless.

Need Wide-angle shots...go with the 880
Wide not as important...go with the 990
Want a little more control over shutter speed...go with the 990
Want great colorful, contrasty photos...either one will do it most of the time.
Want the smallest...go with the 880.
Want to shoot with a viewfinder in bright light or save battery power...go with the 990.

So it does really boil down to what type of shooting you want to be able to do. It would be fantastic if Canon could put all the good features of both cameras into one, but so far you have to choose based on what you value most.

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C Shah 0 pts

November 28, 2008 6:28 PM

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Thank you both Matt and Steve

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Sid 4 pts

November 29, 2008 11:43 PM

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In comparing the two, these images were what did it for me. Zoom in on the hair or eyelashes especially - the 990 looks better to me. Change the last number to 1 or 3 to see the others.
SD990 Sample Image
SD880 Sample Image

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HectorDeLosSantos 0 pts

November 30, 2008 7:45 PM

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5

The Canon G10 blows both of these cameras out of the water.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

December 1, 2008 10:17 PM

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while your opinion is appreciated,it would help if you could back up your statement with reasons why you are so emphatic. frankly. it seems like a dot upgrade that you wontt see much difference in snapshots over the g9.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

December 2, 2008 1:07 PM

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Remember this, however, Sid, that those images are taken under controlled lighting conditions by a professional photographer. My guess is that the average user will seldom get those results. Still, nice shots though.

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Sid 4 pts

December 2, 2008 1:15 PM

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I guess fuzzy eyelashes are just a pet peeve of mine in digital photography and the 990 might be the first point and shoot camera I've seen that doesn't have that problem- in the sample images anyway. I got the 990 from Costco yesterday and have been using it to take some stock photos of beauty products. So far a HUGE upgrade from my SD1000 which I hated due to the tremendous amount of noise in anything less than bright sunlight. I really wish I could have bought the 880 as well just to compare but in the shots I took with the 990 in auto mode around the house, I can say that noise doesn't seem to be an issue at all.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

December 2, 2008 1:22 PM

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Fair enough. But have you tried in extremely limited and available light? Boost it to ISO800 or 1600 and see what you find.

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Sid 4 pts

December 2, 2008 1:33 PM

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I have never been able to use any p+s camera in higher ISOs with good results and sadly this one is no different. The image quality at 1600 w indoor light resembles a webcam. But that's to be expected in my experience with a dozen or so p+s cameras. If I can get my hands on an 880 I will definitely report back on the comparison!

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Leonard Grossman (modemjunkie) 0 pts

December 13, 2008 4:43 PM

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Question: The only reason I am considering the 990 instead of the 880 is the one thing that hasn't been discussed -- the optical viewfinder. If that were the only consideration, is the optical viewfinder on the 990 good enough to make it worth while or would I wind up using the LCD most of the time anyway?

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Cruiznbye (Cruiznbye) 1086 pts

December 15, 2008 10:13 AM

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Leonard,
The viewfinder on the 990 is indeed small, but it has two primary functions. 1) when you are trying to capture fast shots back to back you on the 990 you can switch to "Quick Shot" mode on the dial and the LCD is shut off and you use the viewfinder to take the shots, making little or no lag time between shots. 2) In the brightest light (has to be really bright) you may need to use the viewfinder as the LCD may not be able to be seen. The only other time you would consider using the viewfinder is to save power when shooting by shutting of the LCD (press the display button) and use the viewfinder without draining much juice so you can shoot a lot longer. Other than those times, you will use the LCD as it has grid lines available for composition and leveling, and also 2x3 curtains available to use if you want to frame shots for 4x6 snapshots and not have to lose anything of value in cropping to that print size. BTW, having used both the 880 with 3" LCD and the 990 with the 2.5" LCD, there is really not enough difference in size to matter in real life picture taking. Another plus is the the 2.5" LCD will draw less power than the 3" LCD. I also found the ability to "at will" shut off the LCD on the 990 between shooting by simply pressing the display button was very useful. Otherwise it will stay on even when walking around between shots sucking up power.

I've recently added a Flickr photostream of SD880 VS SD990 photos for comparison for those interested. Unfortunately they are not full resolution on the Flickr site. Viewing largest sizes is only 1024x768, but you can still see that outdoors the 880 and 990 are almost equal for good light and shooting situations. Indoors you'll notice a marked difference between the two cameras as the 990 handles lower light and higher ISO better than the 880. Here's the link to my photostream comparison shots:

www.flickr.com/photos/33346716@N03/

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Cruiznbye (Cruiznbye) 1086 pts

December 16, 2008 12:49 PM

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Upgraded the account at Flickr.com and now you can view full resolution comparison shots should you desire. Just click on "show all sizes" and pick the original size to view or download. Be advised they are large files.
Steve

www.flickr.com/photos/33346716@N03/

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Nate 0 pts

December 29, 2008 5:25 PM

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I've posted a fairly comprehensive comparison of these two cameras over at my blog:
part one is a spec comparison: http://naraku.net/2008/12/22/canon-civil-war-sd880is-vs-sd990is-part-one/
part two has a bunch of sample shots: http://naraku.net/2008/12/26/canon-civil-war-sd880is-vs-sd990is-part-two/

I still haven't made a final decision... even though the quality with the 990 has been distinctly better, the 880 wide angle is really neat. I plan on posting a third part with my decision and conclusions.

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Glenn 0 pts

April 23, 2009 3:03 AM

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I have just had 6 Baileys Irish Cream and cant autofocus.........

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John O 0 pts

May 27, 2009 11:26 PM

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Does anyone have comparison data on lag time for the 880 and 990?

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SirEatsAlot 0 pts

July 27, 2009 9:21 PM

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I bought the 880 and accidentally ate it....oops/

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A	is outstanding and exceptional, rated in the top 10% of digital cameras.
B	means they are good, with some standout features.
C	means they are mediocre, and probably more trouble than they are worth.
D & F	mean they are absolutely awful or old. Avoid at all costs.

sd990is vs sd880is

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