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r (rosannerms) 2 pts

February 28, 2008 1:41 PM

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I can't decide between the olympus 1010 or the sony cyber-shor w170 what will give me a better picture quality

I want at least a 5x voom at 10 megapixels or higher would also be nice and want to stay around 299.00 in price-

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 3, 2008 5:59 PM

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More megapixels isn't necessarily better, Rosanne. Especially if most of what you're taking are snapshots. Let me explain. I came across an interesting article today about how more mega pixels is not necessarily a good thing. According to Image Engineering – a company that does testing of digital cameras for photo magazines in Germany – the quality of digital pictures has steadily decreased since the state of the art was six megapixels back in 2004. And because they don’t have a “dog in this hunt,” they put forth a compelling argument for buying new digital cameras with less mega pixels and not more.

The argument is essentially this: CCD chips on point and shoot cameras a smaller and as such, fitting in more pixels causes them to lose light sensivity. Sure, there’s more data on the chip, but the chip can’t absorb the light data and what it ends up with is a picture that has more noise than image quality. In addition, the more megapixels a camera has, the larger the lens it needs to provide the clarity it deserves and prevent diffraction due to a loss of detail with smaller apertures. But since we’re talking portable point and shoots here, those large lenses simply aren’t being made.

Finally, with larger mega pixels comes longer saving time due to their requires huge storage capacity, or more compression if not storing images in RAW format. The result is a noisier image and a dissatisfied camera user who thirsts for high quality and speed but fell into the trap of "more must mean better."

In the end, relying on a smaller MP that can balance all these needs may indeed be a better answer.

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r (rosannerms) 2 pts

March 4, 2008 9:12 AM

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Thank you for your answer- However if megapixels are not important than what camera would give me great picutes but I still want a voom of 5 or 7 (I like taking close up of my daughters) and still want to stay under 299.00.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 4, 2008 11:52 AM

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Don't get me wrong, megapixels are important. But there's a sweet spot in picture taking where beyond can be too much of a good thing. If you take mostly 99% snapshots (3x5s, 4x6s) then going over 6 mp is really overkill. Kinda like driving a Ferrari on city streets. Sure, you can brag you have a powerful engine under the hood, but can you really experience the benefit? And often, the converse is true, you have all that horsepower but it costs you more gas because it burns more!

If, however, you take a lot of 8x10s and above, that extra boost of MP will begin to show up and be noticeable. So, going with snapshots, I'm not really too thrilled with the 6mp cameras out there. So let's go up a little larger to 7.1 mp. Still very good for the job and you have lots of options, including:

The top ranked Fuji Finepix S700. It has a 10x optical zoom which is pretty darn good. Then, there's the Panasonic TZ3 which has a 10x zoom and optical image stabilization. Both are under $200. And although it has a slighly smaller zoom at 4x, there's the Canon A570 which makes up for it's lack of zoom with image stabilization. And at under $75.00, you can't beat the price.

Lastly there's my personal favorite in this class, but it's a tad bulky ... the Olympus SP550UZ which has a whopping 18x optical zoom, image stabilization and still weighs in at around $160!

Lots of options and all WELL below $299.

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r (rosannerms) 2 pts

March 4, 2008 12:45 PM

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Thank you for all your information- However do you recommend either olympus 1010 or the sony cyber-shot w170? - They are both newer models and both seem to give me what I want (zoom, 10megapixels, image stabilization, face detection, and color)- They both have older models with 8 megapixels and maybe they would be a good choice as well- I do like the fact that they are all very compact cameras and have fashionable colors (although that shouldn't matter but they do look nice)-
I had purchased a kodak two years ago (5 megapixels and 4x zoom) and do not like the quality of pictures I get from it (especially when I try to zoom in on my kids at sports events and concerts) so I do not want to make a bad choice again-

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 4, 2008 1:40 PM

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Well, neither have an optical (or even digital, for that matter) viewfinder. If I was buying a new camera, that would be the dealbreaker for me. Having to use your LCD to frame and shoot gobbles up that battery power that can better be used taking the pictures themselves. So for me, I wouldn't consider them. But quality wise, they are comparable. And with Olympus, you won't be paying a premium for the SONY name and getting proprietary obsessions to boot.

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r (rosannerms) 2 pts

March 4, 2008 4:02 PM

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Thank you so much for all your input- I thought the same about SONY-

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 6, 2008 5:19 PM

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Don't get me wrong. SONY makes great stuff. But certainly no better, IMHO, than Canon or Olympus. And neither of those charges what seems to be a premium for their nameplates nor paints their customers into a technological corner with proprietary nonsense. Which is why I suggest those who have already bought into SONY stay in the family, as it were.

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fredbillie (fredbillie) 251 pts

March 11, 2008 12:37 AM

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Maybe the Olympus is better than the Sony W170 but there is one additional factor to consider. Go to the Sony WEB site at www.sonystyle.com, apply for their credit card (Chase) and if you buy a Sony camera for $299 or more you get a $130 rebate AND interest free for 12 months (if paid up before the end of 12 months). Does that level the competition ground somewhat?

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fredbillie (fredbillie) 251 pts

March 11, 2008 12:39 AM

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P.S you must buy the camera at the Sony online store or a sony style store within 45 days of card activation.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 11, 2008 12:53 PM

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Translation, you have to pay FULL PRICE for it. Comparing with other places, it ends up not being such a great deal. And when you add the APR to it? Well, it really isn't all that.

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fredbillie (fredbillie) 251 pts

March 11, 2008 6:06 PM

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OK, James, you lost me. First, the camera is $300 plus tax of $24.75 for a total of $324.75. Subtract $130 you come out with a net of $194.75. As far as I can tell nobody on the net is selling that camera for anywhere near that price and, if they were, I wouldn't want to buy from them because they are probably low balling the price. In addition, WHAT APR? As I said to start there is NO INTEREST if the camera is paid for in 12 months. That means you have to pay only about $16.23 a month to meet the terms of that deal. In addition you don't have the camera on your other credit card charging about 12% a year or 1% a month.That save you about another $12 in interest. There may be something wrong with that particular camera (I can't say) but what is wrong with that deal?

As an aside, I have seen and tried the Olympus 1010 in a local store For about $269 (Sam's Club), and I will PROBABLY be buying that camera for my wife and not one like the W170 or the original camera, the T300, I was thinking of getting for her before I confirmed that its pictures were basically crap.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 11, 2008 8:18 PM

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Okay, fair enough. But if you think that 1% a month is what they charge, then I suggest you reread the user agreement for your card. Cause that ain't it.

But I will give you that nobody is selling it for cheaper. I'm simply skeptical of those "get our card and we'll give you a steal of a deal" deals.

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fredbillie (fredbillie) 251 pts

March 12, 2008 4:18 AM

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Not the point. The actual interest rate is about 14.24% per year on the Sony card but it doesn't matter if you only get the card to buy the camera @ the 0% rate for 12 months.. Heck, you can then shred the card. I gave the 1% a month for easy calculation purposes and to be conservative about the savings IF YOU HAD PAID FOR THE CAMERA WITH ANOTHER CREDIT CARD. The 1% a month has nothing to do with the Sony card for purposes of an illustration of the savings. Of course, if you paid for the camera in cash from your savings than the additional savings would have been much smaller than 1% a month since the savings rate in the US is about a pitiful 2/10% a month or a total savings lost of about $2.40 a year. You do have to be careful about some of these deals if you tend to be snared by the easy credit available from one more card on top of the ones you already have. The Sony card is currently in a lock box but it is unlikely that it will ever be used now.

I did buy the Olympus camera (because of all its other great features and apparent quality-I hope) DESPITE being a Canon/Fuji person and the one big thing I hated about it and that was its proprietary XD memory card. Olympus looks like it might be ready to give up on it because it included a Micro SD to XD card adaptor. Now, all I have to find out is if, in addition to the lower price and higher GIGs available for Micro SDs, does the adaptor allow the faster SD card processing or is the internal camera electronics going to forestall that? Any ideas on that one? Haven't bought an XD card yet but, if I do, it will be the somewhat faster "H" series.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 12, 2008 1:35 PM

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I felt that way until I tested the SP560UZ. Had no complaints with the xD card at all. and it's not all that proprietary as Fuji also uses xD, whereas only SONY uses the Memory stick.

I would think that at this stage, an adapter would handle the faster cards. But if it's not the case, it will be a few month's down the line. Moore's law being what it is.

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r (rosannerms) 2 pts

March 12, 2008 2:09 PM

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Thanks for all the info- and still deciding on the best camera. I think I am going to go with the Olympus 1010- If Fredbillie wife uses the camera soon can you write back what you thought about the quality of the pictures? and how was the zoom one of the big reasons I like the camera- for school plays and such for the kids-
Thank you-

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fredbillie (fredbillie) 251 pts

March 13, 2008 3:30 AM

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Two further things about the Olympus 1010 that were a little discouraging. First, apparently, there is no view only mode on the camera, that is, the only way you seem to be able to look at pictures you took is by cranking the camera up and having the lens poke out, the switch to view is then easy enough. Secondly, the 640X480 movie mode is limited to 10 seconds at a time (only memory limits apply to the 320X240 mode). I guess that is because of the extra procesing required for AVI movies? Strangely, though, you seem to be able to restart the movie 640X480 mode as often as you want. Its disappointing, but not a deal breaker because I didn't buy it for movie capabilities and I do have a very good hard drive Sony Camcorder that does an excellent job in this regard. Have asked my wife to see if she can catch a squirrel with that 7 times zoom tomorrow.

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r 0 pts

March 13, 2008 6:30 AM

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Well that movie this is a little disappointing I do sometimes use it (my other camera had one) and if the kids were doing a small play not worth pulling out the camcorder I would use it- but like you said not sure if it would be a deal breaker if the pictures were GREAT!
Once again that you for all your help- Don't want to invest in another camera that I regret buying-

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fredbillie (fredbillie) 251 pts

March 13, 2008 9:58 AM

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OK, rosannerms, I have a JPG taken in the early morning hours (about 8 A.M. in Houston Texas before the Sun was very high in the sky). I am 79 so I wasn't holding my hands too steady but I got a shot of a morning dove sitting about 35 feet up in a palm tree and I was about 35 feet away from the Palm tree. My faint remembrance of the square of the hypotenuse equals the square of the sides tells me the bird was about 50 feet away. The picture is about 4.4 MBs and if you will send your Email address to me at fredbillie@gmail.com, I will be glad to sen you a copy of the picture.

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mpaired hal seitz (hal5141) 1213 pts

March 13, 2008 11:10 AM

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hello- just a gentle thought on CAMCORDERS and DIGICAMS and CELL PHONE CAMERA's-- Each of these three instruments are finely honed to perform it's major task- Camcorders- MOVIES ---- Digicams- PHOTOGRAPHS and Cell phones-oral comunication -- Why is is it we want such diversification in our electronic devices?? Certainly, a digicam is NO match for cam corder in MOVIE taking and most certainly a cell phone camera is NO match for a digicam in taking photographs .. This NOW generation seems to want it ALL and ALL in one package, and the smaller the better package--It is a head long plunge into absurdity sometimes. We as consumers are at the mercy of the producers of these SMALLER MEANS BETTER pocketable electronics...Where will it all stop, and comman sense take hold??.. Well, as long as there is MONEY to be made off the innocent consumer , then it will continue unabated, this continuous inventive way to make us part w/ our money will be with us.. For the most part, A camcorder does a better job at taking movies, than any digicam can--And a digicam takes better photos then a cell phone can--Think PRIMARY purpose , and you may just outsmart the purveyors of NEW electronics, which in the long run are NOT universal panaceas for us FUN loving ,easily taken advantage of , Americans..... hal5141

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 13, 2008 2:15 PM

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FredBillie: Interesting, considering that that the SP560UZ (and I'm guessing the 570 as well) has a view only option on the dial. It's a green icon. As for the time limitation for video, it wouldn't surprise me if that gets fixed in a firmware update. But you'd be surprised how often you shoot 10 second video clips. But I can understand how maddening that can be when you don't want to!

BTW - I recommend you put the picture on flickr and just point a link to it. That way everyone can see it.

HAL - there is an argument out there about being over overburdened with technology. It's the multiple remote control syndrome. Why not have one that does it all and does it well? I, for one, will welcome the day when I don't have to bring a camcorder, still camera and cell phone to Disneyland and still get the same great quality.

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mpaired hal seitz (hal5141) 1213 pts

March 13, 2008 2:30 PM

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James- the summery you make has the current flaw "WHY NOT HAVE ONE THAT DOES IT ALL AND DOES IT WELL"---ADAQUECY DOES NOT ADD UP TO EXCELLENCE. and AVAILABILITY does not add up to ABILITY -- IF YOU WELECOME THE DAY YOU CAN DO ALL three of the functions in one unit and have that uiit perform as well as if they were separate entities dedicated to doing a PRIMARY and SINGULAR task nominally assigned to it ,like movie making , photographing,and voice communication, then I wish you a most long and healthy life while you wait, and may your dream come true.. hal5141

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 13, 2008 2:34 PM

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Well, Hal, I didn't say I was holding me breath! ;)

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r 0 pts

March 13, 2008 2:37 PM

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thank you for all the response-
I agree- if I want to not bring a camcorder and a camera to a school play where my child will only be on for about 2 minutes why can't I just bring a camera take pictures and get a quick video of the play? I don't think that is asking to much in this day and age of technology- And I would love to see the picture however maybe you could do a picture on flickr and a link-

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mpaired hal seitz (hal5141) 1213 pts

March 13, 2008 3:08 PM

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Hello--changing between a cam corder for movies and a digicam for stills , is only a nucence, if the equipment are nucences.. Yes, in this day and age of advanced technological expertise , we have easy to use camcorders and easy to use digicams.. When you combine these features in one unit , you DO save time and energy.. HOWEVER, are the results as satisfying??? That is for the individual to decide. Again I say- 'AVILABILITY DOES NOT ADD UP TO ABILITY' hal5141

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 13, 2008 4:07 PM

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That could also hold true for cameras above 6 megapixels. But we've debated that to death, haven't we? :)

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Luigi Trastorno (luigitrastorno) 557 pts

March 13, 2008 6:52 PM

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Excuse me...but why this endless post is posted under Fuji S700?..You are talking about any camera, but not about S700 / S5700!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bye!

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mpaired hal seitz (hal5141) 1213 pts

March 13, 2008 7:53 PM

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hi luigi- my read out is under the Panasonic DMZ TZ -3 as the Main header . Obviously the first question ,was about the TZ-3 , the disscusion becomes expansive as it goes along... I t varies as to which blog you started in, then the threads usually fit that bill , but there is always wondering going on - interseting wondering lots of times..---- Cape esh??? hal5141

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fredbillie (fredbillie) 251 pts

March 14, 2008 1:41 AM

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Here is the URL for the picture of the Morning Dove: http://picasaweb.google.com/fredbillie/OlympusStylus1010/photo#5177465849627179090
I had to reduce the size because Picasa Albums was going Bananas with the original 4.3 MBs for one picture.

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r (rosannerms) 2 pts

March 14, 2008 8:13 AM

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thank you for the picture it is a nice close up -
thanks for all the input-

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 14, 2008 1:47 PM

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The way the forums work is, that when a camera's page at DHQ is linked, the question will be categorized at that page for easy access to the details of that camera. So even though it started off talking about a SONY, when the suggestion of another camera was brought it, it got linked to that camera.

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Mike 0 pts

March 25, 2008 12:35 PM

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Just a note. That's bird is called a mourning not morning dove. The name comes from the sound it makes. I get dozens a day at my feeder

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mpaired hal seitz (hal5141) 1213 pts

March 25, 2008 2:46 PM

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Wait til may 2008 when olympus is coming out with the brand new EV 420 DSLR, which they claim is the smallest DSLR to date - will fit in a pocket and weighs just a little over 15 ounces.. 2.7 inch LCD screen ,hot shoe, interchangeable ZUIKO lenses, face detection, image stabilization, 22 scenes modes, 10 MP, optical view finder, no shutter lag at all,plus plus-- interesting .. will definately take a look see.. not cheap with the 3 interchangeable lenses-- 14mm to 42mm standard-- macro lens and currently the only announced available 3.7X tele , close to $1000 list. They say more lenses will be made available , including a longer tele..
hal5141

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fredbillie (fredbillie) 251 pts

March 26, 2008 8:28 PM

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James, thanks for the pointer on the Olympus Playback only mode (no lens extended). I found it on the dial (the usual triangle). I had just missed it.

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by James DeRuvo (byjamesderuvo) 58446 pts

March 28, 2008 10:34 PM

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Don't feel so bad. Took me nearly a year to notice mine!

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CarolR 0 pts

June 16, 2008 1:45 PM

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Just FYI
The Olympus cameras 840, 1010, etc have a firmware upgrade. If you use the Olympus brand M+ XD card you can get unlimited video length when combined with the firmware upgrade. Found more info on the olympus site.

Good luck - I'm trying to decide between Sony W170 and Olympus 840 or 1010 too and this discussion was helpful.
carol

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Luigi Trastorno (luigitrastorno) 557 pts

June 16, 2008 6:19 PM

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Dear carolR,

S700 camera has firmware updates too, from fuji´s official page. It´s standard to have a non limited video length (just limited due to card capacity). With upgrades, this units can use up to 8GB SD cards, on where you can store about 145 minute video. It´s amazing, not?

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sharingan 0 pts

December 21, 2008 3:07 PM

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I had both olympus u1010 and the sony cybershot.... if u really wanna take quality pics with life in it, better go for olympus... cos sony exaggerates the colour and manipulates them... its kinda fake u know... better go to a shop where they show u live... cos when i bought the olympus u1010 i compared it with the sony rival and saw the results myself....

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A	is outstanding and exceptional, rated in the top 10% of digital cameras.
B	means they are good, with some standout features.
C	means they are mediocre, and probably more trouble than they are worth.
D & F	mean they are absolutely awful or old. Avoid at all costs.

I can't decide between the olympus 1010 or the sony cyber-shor w170 what will give me a better picture quality

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