Those rotating displays can definitely cause issues, but considering the upgrade cycle of the camera, few places stock the unique parts unfortunately.

Recommend spending about $20 and getting a USB card reader. Plug in your SD card and you can upload any number of pictures to your PC with a simple drag and drop.

Check with CanonUSA.com. Course, with a USB card reader, you won't need a driver at all.

I'd try resetting your camera. Also, update the firmware if a new version is available at Canon's website.



Unfortunately, the A650 isn't a part of the faulty CCD recall. But if you suspect a faulty CCD, send it in to Canon and see what they say. If faulty, they could replace it. But they may also charge you for a failed CCD since the camera is out of warranty.

I like mine but it sometimes has a hard time getting focused photos. I am really hoping for a full size sensor coming soon in an affordable canon. I need the swivel screen and like this model but frankly this is my 4th canon and my first 2 mg took the best focused photos of all of them go figure!



It also needs to recharge the batteries every night if on a vacation as the battery life is like my previous 3 not very long lasting.......



The macro function works better than my earlier models and a tripod is needed for good shots!

Thanks for the feedback! I'll look into the Sony H50, but it's encouraging to hear that the Canon A650 takes good macros!

Is there a question here? It's pretty hard to get an SLR sized sensor into a compact point and shoot. The only company that I know that puts an SLR sensor in any kind of point and shoot is Sony, who puts their dSLR sensor from the Alpha line into their H series point and shoots. The bigger cameras by Canon, such as the G9 are getting close to having an SLR-like sensor, but still may be another release before one comes out. I'd wait for Photokina, which is happening this month to see if anythings coming out. Also, I hope you're not talking about a full framed sensor; in which case I doubt any Point and Shoot will have that for at least a long time.

Well if you're looking for a full framed sensor, go with the Nikon D3, or wait for the new sequel to Canon's 5D. Currently, I like the Nikon D3 more than the Canon 5D, but the new Canon sequel to the 5D should give the D3 a run for its money. Also, take a look at the Sony Alpha A900, I've got it pre-ordered. It's a great camera, does pretty much everything the higher end Nikon and Canon's can do, plus its $2000 less than the competition.

For $1500 they must have done something spectacular to this camera, probably put in a completely different lens that is a specialized Macro lens, because $1500 is more than $1000 what the consumer camera is worth. Maybe a different CCD, processor, and lens... who knows... It's hard to tell without seeing the specific camera specs. Anyway, for a fraction of that price you can buy an SLR camera, I'd recommend probably the Canon xTi or xSi for something like this. It is a bit bigger, but I know a lot of dentists use this one, or the new Nikon D300 that came out, with a Macro lens. The body plus a Macro lens may run you around $1000, plus or minus some depending on the deals you get. You can always step down in models to save money, and you should still get a good macro shot. I'd invest in a ring light if you can find one as well, it will probably help with the shots you're taking.

What do you mean by "variable LCD?" Frankly, I think there's better cameras out there, especially for the price. I'd look at the Canon SX100 or the G9.



Now I know what you're saying ... I want 12 megapixels. My question is ... why? You won't even see the difference between 6 and 12 MP until you reach sizes over 11x14. For picture quality, I think there's too much MP here to work with. Let me explain. I came across an interesting article today about how more mega pixels is not necessarily a good thing. According to Image Engineering ( 6mpixel.org/en/?  ) – a company that does testing of digital cameras for photo magazines in Germany – the quality of digital pictures has steadily decreased since the state of the art was six megapixels back in 2004. And because they don’t have a “dog in this hunt,” they put forth a compelling argument for buying new digital cameras with less mega pixels and not more.



The argument is essentially this: CCD chips on point and shoot cameras a smaller and as such, fitting in more pixels causes them to lose light sensivity. Sure, there’s more data on the chip, but the chip can’t absorb the light data and what it ends up with is a picture that has more noise than image quality. In addition, the more megapixels a camera has, the larger the lens it needs to provide the clarity it deserves and prevent diffraction due to a loss of detail with smaller apertures. But since we’re talking portable point and shoots here, those large lenses simply aren’t being made.



Finally, with larger mega pixels comes longer saving time due to their requires huge storage capacity, or more compression if not storing images in RAW format. The result is a noisier image and a dissatisfied camera user who thirsts for high quality and speed but fell into the trap of "more must mean better."



In the end, relying on a smaller MP that can balance all these needs may indeed be a better answer.

Would love to know the answer to this question. B. Moore

Brenda: Are you sure A590 have flip display? I don't think so, i've cross checked at two forums and both of them says, it does not have flip display. The ones who have it are A650IS and S5IS. 6x zoom is better than 4x zoom for sure when you want to take something in far distance. However higher optical zoom means it will need better image stabilizer (using tripod is recommended for higher optical zoom) and also notice that when you use high optical zoom, the camera will capture lower light that can decrease your picture quality. Hope that helps.

They're very similar. However, I think that the A650 has WAY too much MP. Let me explain. I came across an interesting article today about how more mega pixels is not necessarily a good thing. According to Image Engineering ( 6mpixel.org/en/?  ) – a company that does testing of digital cameras for photo magazines in Germany – the quality of digital pictures has steadily decreased since the state of the art was six megapixels back in 2004. And because they don’t have a “dog in this hunt,” they put forth a compelling argument for buying new digital cameras with less mega pixels and not more.



The argument is essentially this: CCD chips on point and shoot cameras a smaller and as such, fitting in more pixels causes them to lose light sensivity. Sure, there’s more data on the chip, but the chip can’t absorb the light data and what it ends up with is a picture that has more noise than image quality. In addition, the more megapixels a camera has, the larger the lens it needs to provide the clarity it deserves and prevent diffraction due to a loss of detail with smaller apertures. But since we’re talking portable point and shoots here, those large lenses simply aren’t being made.



Finally, with larger mega pixels comes longer saving time due to their requires huge storage capacity, or more compression if not storing images in RAW format. The result is a noisier image and a dissatisfied camera user who thirsts for high quality and speed but fell into the trap of "more must mean better."



In the end, relying on a smaller MP that can balance all these needs may indeed be a better answer. More MP isn't necessarily better.

Yes, but in this case 720 vs 650, things are not so simple. A650 has biger CCD than A720, and biger lens ( same as on G9 ). And yes, A720 has 8MP, A650 12MP. It looks like PtW in cars, doesn't it?

I am glad not to be helpful, becouse you need to decide yourself

Big lens wins over overstuffed MP every time.

For comparison, you may want to check out this resource ( imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP...  ). It takes pictures with each and you can compare them side by side.



Frankly, I think it's a horse race. Both give sharp images (though I give the A650 a slight edge). nice color. The A650 has a much better macro.

quality of lens this is the eye of the camera.

the build quality of the camera.

the ease of use of the camera.

the type of image processing soft ware it has.

my choice given these criteria.

is the panasonic tz5.

There is no Point and Shoot digital camera that will take photos in a movie theatre type setting without a flash. They simply don't have the light sensitivity to do it. You'll have to use a dSLR to get that kind of a shot.

Just a few thoughts for you,

1) It is hard to go wrong with the G9. It's rugged and versatile. Plus the waterproof housing is available.

2) As far as being an amateur -- All three cameras have Auto settings which makes them function as Point and Shoot cameras.

3) All three also have manual control options so you can begin to learn more about photography as you have time and interest.

4) G9 uses proprietary Lithium-ion battery which is more expensive than NiMH AA's for the other two cameras.

5) G9 has faster flash recharge times

6) I don't like the tripod connection location on the A720. It is way over to the side instead of the center.

7) 7MP is enough to make an 8 X 10 inch print so if you have 12MP, you can crop significantly and still print 8 X 10. MP are useful for being able to crop and make large prints. 12 is nice for the very reason you stated.

8) Higher MP number has the downside of reducing sensitivity making low light conditions a problem requiring higher ISO to compensate.

9) What model Canon did you "currently" have? Anything you particularly liked or disliked about it?

10) Do you have a maximum budget set?

11) All of these cameras can use the slave type flash which triggers off the main built in flash of the camera. The advantage of the hot shoe on the G9 is the ability to automatically adjust the flash based on focus distance as well as controlling the flash manually.

12) I don't know what you mean when you say the 650 only uses Vista. You can always use a card reader and transfer images via USB ports.

13) IMHO, all three cameras are proportionally as good as their cost. So you really get what you pay for. I have the G9 and really enjoy it.

No. Neither is equipped with stereo mics. Understand that video in a digital still camera is by and large a marketing feature. It's meant to give the impression of more bang for the buck. And most will not zoom while recording. This has to do with audio recording, I believe.



The Canon S5, however, does zoom during video capture I believe.

Never mind, I got my answer!

The S5is answers all those requests and makes your breakfast, too.

OK well being the political season maybe I did put a little spin on that, but it is a really nice camera.

I particularly like that it will zoom while making video which most digitals won't do.

Bye the bye, just how large are your pockets, anyway?

Well, a 12 MP camera will certainly do the trick. But what you want to guard against is more and more noise that will enter your photograph as you go up in ISO range. Essentially, as the light gets dimmer, the camera will automatically choose a higher ISO speed setting to get cause the image to record light faster to soak up more of it. But along with that comes a higher noise ratio.



What you should be asking is, will I be making more than just the occasional poster size? If so, then I'd be looking for a DSLR.

If you would like to print at that big size, 12mp is good enough. However i would recommend DSLR cameras for better result. Bigger mp means bigger size of pictures, therefore more details and manual settings are needed.

I think that you need A720IS because it is cheapest (-$120) and it is a Canon thread :)

The main differences are in megapixels and in the LCD monitor.

Thanks for the answer. I'm wondering though about this "fringing and noise" I keep hearing about with the S5 IS. Should I be concerned about this? With regards to zoom, are there camera's in the price range of the S5 IS that have 15-18 zoom? Can I eventually add a new lens to this camera - making the zoom not so important? Is this camera a good choice for a beginner to digital photography who wants a good camera to start with? Can it shoot videos on a self-timer of sorts? Or do I have to actually be operating the camera for this function to work?

Setting your camera to a lower setting doesn't really mean that. Essentially, the image is reduced to the set quality after it has been processed by the CCD. As such, the light still goes through those pixels, only that after some basic processing steps pixels "thrown out" to make the image to the desired setting and size. This process is called "Choking" and that will cause Artifacting and noise. Additionlly, you'll also loose details of the recorded image.



Some cameras have written into their firmware a process called "binning," which merges the signals of multiple pixels to make larger pixels. Usually at a 4-1 ration. This will essentially turn a 12-megapixel camera into a 3-megapixel camera. And that gives you the opposite problem of too many pixels on the chip ... you now have too few and as such, will run into artifacting instead of noise.

To my knowledge the innards of these two cameras should give you exactly the same image. The differences are in functionality such as RAW mode, maximum shutter speed (1/2000 vs 1/2500), .....

Try this URL for this very discussion on a different thread on this same website.



digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  camera hunting, Larry

Hi abhi,

I've been watching your posts regarding A650is and G9 and have been giving it some thought.

You have made a very good point regarding "identical images or not?"

Now, just for the sake of discussion, let's assume the images are identical. Does that mean ,"Buy the A650is because it is cheaper and gives you the same image"? I don't think so. I would say, "Now we have to give these two cameras a thorough evaluation of all the items which will make the difference in how we use the camera and how it works for us, individually". From that point of view I propose that these are two very different cameras such that the price difference MIGHT be worth it.



First, there is the list of function differences including RAW format; slight shutter speed difference; weight, shape and size; hotshoe; LCD differences including number of pixels, size, flip and twist; 2 white balance presets not on A650is-Flash and second custom setting; shooting modes--A650is does not have Sports scene; A650is has a limited My Colors list of abilities; G9 continuous mode is a little faster (1.5) than the A650is (1.2); G9 shoots time lapse; G9 shoots video at 1024 X 768 at 15 fps; G9 has additional Playback modes; G9 has additional erase modes; A650is takes twice as many pictures on one set of batteries; A650is runs on playback mode almost 4 times as long on one set of batteries.

All this information comparison comes straight from the Canon USA website (any errors are theirs).



Two, might be simply the way they fit in your hand and how you can operate the controls.



Three could be considering how you will carry the camera - in a case, in a pocket, on a strap, in a backpack, only occasionally or all the time.....



Four, if the built in flash on the A650is turns out to not be powerful enough you have the option of buying a slave flash that triggers off the built in flash. But that still might not be enough. OK. So you buy two slave flashes, or three! Now we are at the point of considering whether we would prefer having the G9 just so we could buy a flash with bounce capabilities etc. to maximize the potential of our camera.



Lastly, might be the possibly very serious issue of AA vs Lithium batteries. I agree with Hal S. on his posts saying we don't want to choose the camera just for the batteries, but IF everything else is judged to be equal and batteries make a difference, then we have to make a choice. I do think we have to be realistic and not just imagine scenarios which we don't really plan to happen.

And twice as many shots per set of NiMH batteries for the A650is could be really important in travel and other situations.



I think I have shown that these are two very different cameras, and that careful consideration must be given to weigh in the balance the potentially important differences for each user.

Tanks for such a great side-by-side comparison between the two models Dean... I already had a similar idea about the two models, but idea and information are two different things, and thank you for enriching me by providing a lot of the later one...

I have marked the answer "helpful" simply because it was, however, I would request you to look at the original question once... :)

But lots of thanks anyway...

-Abhi.

hello- having looked at a lot of CANON digicams in photo sections of stores- i am very suprised at the DIFFERANCE in quality ( obvious features) in many models ALL close to each other in price-- Tryin gto compare Apples to apples. Say,within a$50 list price of each other , I see what looks like lack of quality control and design goofs and poor choice of materials , in some models and better choices in others. Again , i tdoesn't make any sense to me,subjectively , to see these comparitive designs ,some good and some bad.Its as if Canon is throwing everything it can out there to be viewed at the market place and saying-" SEE , WE CAN DO BETTER WHEN WE WANT TO"---IT IS A IRRATIONAL philosophy if the Canon Company wants to be known as a QUALITY company...The 2 canon digicams i have are well built, Just lucky choices maybe, because I see a 10X canon P and S and a 12.1 canon P and S that look a little flimsey compared to the Canon A 710/720 IS line and to the long G series they have produced . This is just meant to show, even within the same price ranges and similar attributes- Not only to various manufacturers digress in quality ,but even IN HOUSE manufacture varies-- I guess you could ascertain the same conclusions from many manufactured items, but it shows up very vividly in the ever growing P and S digicam market place. THIS is why having a thread like this is important in the decision making processes needed to pick a product that will give pleasure rether than stress. AND it should always be done in a FRIENDLY way- Of course , we can all take exception to opinions we feel are biased and not right on the mark. BUT correcting those items ,should be done in a concise and non combative way. Getting involved with personal choices ,does not mean to get involved with personalities. The two should NEVER be confused.... If this thread is to be kept a viable and on going educational forum, then decorum and KINDNESS have to be predominately the type of language we seek, to make our points. hal5141

Chris,



This is a phenomenal deal! This camera usually sells by it self for that much or more. If I was in the market for a camera, and this one suited my needs, I'd pick that deal up right now.



Andrew

Chris,



The 6MP should be just fine for this. You can easily print at 11x14" or even larger with the finest resolution settings without a problem. The noise through the video might come through during digital zooming when the camera adjusts. Because this is not a standard cam-corder, it isn't designed around video. As for the "noise" in the photos, this graininess comes out during higher ISO settings in any camera. While higher ISO makes the camera perform better in low light situations, the trade-off is this "noise." I use higher ISO a lot in low light and then use software, Paint Shop Pro, to reduce the noise on my computer. I've found it works pretty well. Good luck with your new camera.



Andrew

The macro on the A650 isn't that impressive, to be honest. Although about $100 more, the G9 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) is where you want to be looking for a 12MP point and shoot.

hello-Yes Larry hit it on the button and here are some other factors to take in to consideration--many hobbiests who are not primarily photogs, need reliable photographic aides to record their progress thru the wonderments of their choosen hobby. Where miniturization is involved in taking snaps of a hobby- the MACRO feature of a P and S digicam and how steady a platform you can create are of the utmost importance - every other feature present falls BEHIND the macro capability.. Stamp collecting, coin collecting. doll houses and cottage collectors , toy trains , diorama building, dicast transportion hobbiests, fish fanciers, thimble and spoon people, and lets not forget folks who want to sell on e bay. These endevors all require DETAIL and precision in recording the photoghafic mission what ever it may be.. The canon g -9 uses a a very finely tuned MACRO feature when you are shooting within a 1 inch distance from you lense., this capability in MACRO mode goes all the way down to less than one inch,allowing for minute detail.... THe real useful range in a macro photo op is at 12 to 19 inches, say a favorite pistol or revolver. clarity and crispness and color sturation are the 3 biggies you look for in this type of shooting. The Macro range of the canon G-9 allows for the ultimate in details to be portrayed .. The smallest of inscriptions can be recorded. Now you know this is the top of the line, but if you do not want to spend that much , on dear old dad, your perogative of course-- you can still do him proud, ALMOST as equally as well with the CANON A720 is the G-9 has 12.1 pmegapixels and the AQ720is , 8.1 megapixils . a significant differance in reserve power to prevent pixilation ( the coming apart of a digital photo as it is magnified) - A steady platform for shots w/ either is a MUST - but the both the canon G-9 and A720is are second to none in proper focusing and ability to shoot CLEARLY in macro mode .. The G -9 has the slight edge because of its extended macro range ( the A720is goes down to less than a inch but starts at 14 inches- you lose 5 inchs of high percision optics that are brought into play w/ the MACRO mode in use.. 5 inches in a miniturization hobby is alot.. The average macro capability is about 14 inches down to a inch. All pretty close stats when you get right down to it. Canon optics are top notch , so even thou you may research a lot of other choices in p and s digicams , you will always find yourself back looking at canons.- the powershot group of canons seem to be more suited for Macro than the Canon sureshot or elf groups ( canon has alot of digicams out there ).. One last plug for the G-9 and dad getting one of these prizes--- The G -9 has 2 Speciality settings so you can go right to a mode you preset upon turning the digicam ON - I have my G-9 set at MACRO for one mode and the Self timer (10 seconds) for the other mode. Both give me instananious access to two features used a lot by miniturization hobbiests hal5141

Hi all,



Considering that the A650IS and the G9 are having almost EXACTLY the same lenses and sensors, what is it that makes the difference?? I know that being a top-of-the-line model the G9 is supposed to have better build,performance,and features, but going by the specs, the two are exactly the same when it comes to the basic components... So there's supposed to be no difference between the two... So is there ACTUALLY a difference?? If yes, then what could possibly be the reason for it? I am not an expert in this area, but this is what I could make out from the specs and reviews of the two models.... That they are supposed to be having almost the same PICTURE QUALITY...

If you can swing it, the G9 is your baby. Great MP, fabulous optics. Image Stabilization. It has it all. As for speed of pictures, I assume you're referrign to shutter delay. Shutter delay is a way of life in digital cameras. But the good news is that the delay is lessening as the technology matures. And what's interesting is, that DSLRs dont' have a lag issue at all. Or, it's nearly non existent.



The good news is that according to recent news articles, many camera companies will be incorporating the CCD chips they use in their SLR lines (which give no shutter lag) into their point and shoot cameras. So look for it within the next few years.



Meanwhile, here's a few tips:



1. Prefocus. Hold down the shutter half way to get a prefocus of the image you're shooting. When it changes, prefocus again. This will speed up your camera's performance during picture taking since it won't have to autofocus before it shoots the shot.



2. Use faster SD cards. Yes, there are faster cards and it does make a difference in writing the image file to the card. This is especially key if you're taking multiple or burst images.



3. Fresher batteries. Use alkalines at least. But I recommend using high energy batteries designed for digital photography. Varta is a good brand. They are usually sold in camera shops, are long lasting (because they are sold in small quantities) put out alot of energy.



4. Shoot in "sports" modes when you're in situations that require action. Night or available light modes when in night time settings. These presets can help in speeding up your shots, rather than the camera taking a split second to evaluate the conditions of the lighting.



5. Go manual. If you are manually focusing, particularly in darker settings, you can constantly refocus the image as things happen. Also, the infrared does have a range and if your image is out of that range you can end up with the camera's "best guess" or infinity setting which may not help. You can also go manual on fstops and shutter speeds as well, getting more light faster when you choose.



6. Go with a shallow depth of field.



7. Pan with the action. You can create some pretty cool shots by panning with your shot, focusing on your subject. This will create the effect of your subject in sharp contrast to the blurry background.



8. Use a flash - even in day time. This will "freeze" the image and cause your subject to "pop" in the shot. However, flash is only designed for limited range and can dissipate outside of about 20-25 feet unless you're using a zoomable flash.



9. Stick with 100-400 ISO. Going higher will cause more noise/grain in your shots, particularly in darker settings.

Except, as I have mentioned further, with the G9, you end up paying for MP you'll seldom see. It's kinda like driving a Lamborghini around L.A. city streets. Sure, it's pretty to look at and sounds really cool, but you very rarely really see how it truly performs. And at $500, one may as well go "all in" with a DSLR.



Still, the ability to shoot RAW is an attractive feature, but only if you're doing serious photo editing. For the average user (and only 20% of those actually print their photographs) it's still overkill, IMHO.

sorry to be a bit MIA... i've had a terrible cold and haven't done much except sip tea and sit on a couch. i'd like to learn more about photography but i'm very basic right now, e.g. i know how to use the manual features but haven't the first clue as to how to use a hot shoe flash let alone the RAW format. without those two features, which would you choose between the g9 and the 650 IS?



size of camera isn't too much of an issue. i think i could fit both cameras into my purse.



what is important is the shutter speed (thanks, james, for your tips on shooting pics!) and the quality of the pictures that come out. i was using my old camera the other day, a canon from 7 years ago, and the quality was horrific. cost isn't so much an issue, though i don't want to be paying for features i wouldn't use. so, larry, to your question, i'd love a camera i can grow with for a couple of years.



and are there other factors i ought to be considering aside from picture quality, shutter speed, and portability? thanks, gents, for hearing my questions out!

james - i think you're right on about not needing nitros oxide fuel which is what i think i'd end up with the g9. i was looking at the specs again and i realized i didn't know what to do with them and realistically for that price point i'd want to do a dslr in a couple of years once i learn more about photography. you were also right about shutter delay/lag versus speed. thanks for the tip on how to mitigate the delay and the newspaper link - that was really helpful.



larry - thanks for your input as well. i've benefitted from hearing about how you chose the g9 too and your thoughts on the g9 versus the a650.



to you both - many thanks in helping a novice, really, understand the differences between the two cameras and for the shooting tips. i may be back to ask more advice on how to use the camera and taking photos... your help has been great!

agreed!

I am in the same boat as you actually. Right now the suggestions are looking like the s6000fd, but I really want something with IS, so I wanted to get the S5 IS...but all the ISO over 200 with IS are getting pretty crappy...its a serious problem, if you get it solved, let me know!

Not at all. Because there's only a little over a dozen reviews on this camera, you could say the jury is still out on it. Frankly, a "B" rating on a camera with this little user reviews is quite impressive. Usually it howevers around a "C" grade. I think a B is a fair rating for this camera and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But it's ranked pretty much in the middle of the pack, so there's plenty that outperform it.



In that same range, I'd point you the G9 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ). It has IS, 6x optical zoom and shoots with RAW as an option. Pretty nice and highly rated camera.

hello - the flip out screen seems to be your mst important feature in a new digicam. Ala camcorders-- This is a important feature, if that is what you want. As James pointed out there are many choices in P and S digicams, BUT not as many in P and S digicams w/ flip out LCD.. Canon has a number of them ,as weel as Nikon.Would suggest you call either of these two companys, speak to a rep and they will tell you which digicam models have flip ot LCD readers.. This is the simplest way to the solution.. Keep in mind the P and S digicam market is a hot one.. Manufacturer's drop a model at the drop of a hat and introduce new models at a rapid clip.. You have to draw a line in the sand and say , i am going to make apurchase of CURRENT equipment available,otherwise , you will research and research and never get to the pleasure of ownersahip and fun photo ops.. If you could live w/ a non flip out 3 inch LCD reading , the Canon G-9 is near the top of the heap with glowing reviews...The 3"LCD screen is Brilliant and crisp, and almost has a 3 D quality to it- that of course is a subjective opinion , but none the less this is what I percieve when using this nifty little brick of a digicam..hal5141

For a wider range of f stops, you're going to need to either invest in a DSLR or a Superzoom. Course, they're dependent on the speed of their lenses, but the bottom line is that a point and shoot is always going to be a compromise of quality vs. convenience. They've come a long way, don't get me wrong. And the 650IS is a pretty good indicator of that. And I can see why you would need the pop out screen.

1. You can go to the manufacturers websites to quickly see which models have flip out LCD's. Note: be cautious of using the "dpreview" type of website's data bases because they are FREQUENTLY incorrect in regards to flip out LCD's.



2. The Canon A650is was the top of my list until I held it and decided it was to large for me to carry around ALL the time, and I wanted a camera to have with me constantly. The G9 fits in my small fanny pack in which I have "everything". I also really wanted a flip out LCD for overhead viewing and such. I was surprised at how well I can see the G9 LCD when held at odd angles and even overhead.



3. If you have held the 650 in your hands and it works and feels good to you and you can see what you need to see, then my recommendation is to open that box and get started taking great pictures UNLESS the f-stop factor is really that important to you in which case you are going to have to consider a larger heavier camera (DSLR) or perhaps the Canon S5is. You will have to look sharply at the S5is in regards to f-stop range and other specs as I can not speak to that but it weighs only 16 ounces which is only a little more than the G9. DSLR's will get you the speeds and f-stops you want but at the cost of increased weight.



4. I think you are needing to go to the camera store and hold some of these types of cameras and see which are physically appropriate for you and your particulars preferences.



5. As a side note, I would suggest you start getting ready to make significant adjustments to the way you shoot since you are already very used to film and manual control of such things as depth of field which is tough to do even with the S5is, A650is or G9 for technically limiting reasons not the least of which is their very small CCD's compared to the SDLR's.



Let me know if I can help further in your search and good luck.

Larry--your answer was definitely the best so far--Thank you!



So far no one has talked about lens performance--although I liked Larru's talking about digital vs film and depth of field. Some of my best digital pics have had beautiful soft backgrounds--but unfortunately, I haven't yet learned how to control or pick the right modes for what I want.



Or maybe people just don't do the kind of tests we used to do on a new film camera or lens. Things like taking a shot of a newspaper pinned up at set distances from the camera. Looking for lens sharpness in how well you can read the newspaper, especially at the edges of the frame, where there may be distortion



If I had world enough and time, I'd Run the same sequence through the different modes, and variants on that. In the old days, we'd magnify a print to see how well the lens image stood up. Being able to do this in the computer is great. Yes, some things are better.



I'm not so sure that face-focusing technology is one of them. I photographed my black cat's beautiful face on a gray backbround, centering on the cat and shooting in portrait mode. Without a flash, I have a black blob. With the flash, I have no cat after the first firing as the cat flees. So far the best information I have is that you can't turn off the manufacuter''s choice of what is a face, although you can turn off the flash.



In the magazines, as in these asnwers, I find almost everything is now aboutt the weight and stuff you can read on the outside of the box in the store. But very few seem to take pictures with the camera and talk about its performance.



So I'm going to take Larry's advice and hope he gets the points--and maybe that someone will still speak about the subject of picture quality or refer me to sites that focus in [lol] on that



Marga

I forgot to mention that I read somewhere that taking photos of black animals has the reverse technical problems of taking photos of beach scenes. Non DSLR's have a hard time keeping up with a lot of bright white OR really dark blacks. A histogram can be helpful to avoid the loss of detail in the extreme black/white shades. You can at least then choose which one you want to have exposed properly in those situations where you can't have both exposed properly. There is also software available which will combine an underexposed pic with and overexposed one and get the best of both. Of couse, that assumes your subject will stay stationary between shots which may be your main problem with the kitties rather than exposure problems.



I didn't get to see your first post so I don't know what film camera you were using etc. Entering the world of digital can be very distressing especially going from film to digital AND from SLR to non-SLR at the same time. Is DSLR not an option for you? DSLR's have larger CCD's and are therefore able to push the f-stop from f8 on to f16 or so. f8 is the best I've seen on the non-SLR's. Also, you mentioned wanting a low end around 1.4 which can be had on DSLR's but not nonDSLR's which are typically 2.8 or even 3.5 at the wide end up to 5.6 or so at full tele.



I am convinced every person looking for a new camera needs some kind of encouragement to keep looking and digging past your first few "This is the one!" cameras. I am so very glad I did. I never would have chosen the G9 until I had "decided" on 3 previous cameras and then pushed onward to find reasons I wouldn't like each one and how I could do better. Going to the camera stores helps as does reading reviews and forums on the internet. I had to get totally overwhelmed with information and data two or three times and then work through making sense out of it all. It is ALWAYS a compromise because you have to give up something everytime you get something else whether it is cost, size, weight, speed, performance in various situations. So when you really think you are ready to make a decision on a camera then find out what that camera WON'T do that you want and see if there is one out there that will. The choices are so numerous that it takes much more time than you might think it should.

Just don't give up

Here's the thing about DSLRs, Marga. You've gotta go "all in." Don't settle for the body and a 50mm lens. Look for a package deal that'll give you a good quality zoom like say, 18-105. Two lenses in the package to take you out past 200mm would be even better. You'll end up spending well over a grande and you've got to commit to a different way of shooting pictures (hobbyist vs. shutterbug). But the quality difference in the long run, plus the potential to grow with you would be well with it.



Now back to the Costco deal. Like you said, it's too good to pass up. But you're not factoring in the cost of the ink cartridges and photo paper. That's why camera companies can offer great deals by tossing in a printer. In theory, they can make up for it with the cost of ink.



And thus the reason why only 20% of digital camera users actually print their pictures. And only a fraction of those print from home.

I just discovered the most wonderful gold mine on this website. Go to the bottom of this page and find the word "Resources" near the right bottom corner. Click on it and get ready to be overwhelmed. I had not noticed it before just now, maybe others hadn't either.

Had to at least see what's there. Yes, a treasure trove indeed!



For some reason, I'm drawn to the Black Cat link. vbg



Marga The Pointless

Michael,



You're going to get sharper photos with the 12MP resolution Canon A650 IS ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ). You do have half the zoom capabilities though, if that makes a difference. As for low light situations, you need to look at the max aperture settings for the cameras. You get a slightly wider aperture with the Canon S5 IS ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ), but not enough to make a difference. Another factor to look at is the ISO settings, as I mentioned in another answer ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) to some of your questions. If you use a higher ISO setting, you will have a more visible photo in low light, but you do increase the amount of "noise" or graininess in the photo. I would also recommend a tri-pod or mono-pod for low light settings. You will decrease the amount of camera shake even more when using these. Good luck and happy shooting.



Andrew

Noonzie,



Do you mean, can the movie hear the clicking sound while shooting? If so, it shouldn't be that bad. Which camera were you asking about for the movie quality?



Andrew

Noonzie,



I have honestly not shot movies with either of these cameras. If you want to get a demo, you might be able to go down to a Circuit City or Best Buy in your area and test the cameras on site before buying. I would recommend that to anyone buying a camera. The camera should feel comfortable in your hand, and it gives you a better idea of the features before you buy. If I heard the more audible click and zoom when shooting video, it would bother me, and I would go with the quieter camera (if I was shooting more video).



Andrew

Where did you hear that from? lol. The Canon A650 stores video at high resolution at a rate of 1.92 MB/sec (give or take, depending on lighting conditions).



The length of a movie clip (you can have several clips on a card, but you'll have to stop between clips) can be 4GB, or about 35 minutes. If you use lower resolution and store more, the clip can't exceed 60 minutes. So basically, you're looking at 1/2 hour to 1 hour of video on a 4GB card.



What's also nice is with 2500-2700 mAh NiMH batteries you can get 300+ pictures from the camera. Shutter lag is .1 seconds when prefocused and .4 seconds when including auto-focus time. Even shot-to-shot time of 2 seconds (without flash) is pretty impressive, considering each picture is 12MP of storage, which is a lot!



No, you have nothing to worry about. Just get good strong rechargable batteries and you'll be happy with this camera.

I personally don't have the A650IS.... I have the SD800IS and have been so happy with it I have no need to buy another camera. The A650IS is certainly top-of-the-line and, me being cheap, I wait until I can get the best price possible.



You can read some pretty comprehensive user reviews here: amazon.com/review/product/B...  all happy with it. I'd find it hard to believe you received a grey-market camera. Just keep your receipt :)

Oh, my fault, I misread your last post about being taken off the market in October. I mistakenly thought that meant you got one of those. Sorry.

I'm sure Dell and Amazon and any other online retailer sells the same products as at the stores... Good article, thanks for bringing that up, Harold! Just another example of why you ALWAYS hold on to your receipt for at least the first year!

Frank, IS will certainly help. What you really want to be looking for in an IS feature is OPTICAL image stabilization, and not digital. Optical will make corrections mechanically while digital alters the picture through an algorthym that isn't always on the money. If anything, its' a best guess. With optical, it's like a steadycam or shock absorber.



You also may want to invest in a monpod for an extra bit of stability. Not as stable as a tripod, but far more mobile, and it could double as a nice walking stick/cane should you require it. A monpod would help with the tremors but be mobile enough not to weigh you down.

Frank, the A650 is an ok option, but the A720 IS take it to another level. There is some question of a defective DIGIC III processor, but I haven't seen much on how widespread that is. Frankly, I think it must be an isolated issue by the user who posted it. The A720IS is highly rated and ranked amongst cameras in it's class.



Another option would be the SD950IS, which has a 12MP processor. Both have IS and would work really well for you.

Shutter delay is a way of life in digital cameras. But the delay is lessening as the technology matures. And what's interesting is, that DSLRs dont' have a lag issue at all. Or, it's nearly non existent.



But compact point and shoots, well, they know how to do it, but historically, keeping camera prices low has made it more cost prohibitive. The good news is that according to recent news articles, many camera companies will be incorporating the CCD chips they use in their SLR lines (which give no shutter lag) into their point and shoot cameras. So look for it within the next few years.



Meantime, there are a few tips to speed up your performance:



1. Prefocus. Hold down the shutter half way to get a prefocus of the image you're shooting. When it changes, prefocus again. This will speed up your camera's performance during picture taking since it won't have to autofocus before it shoots the shot. This will speed up your shutter lag time by as much as 80%!



2. Use faster SD cards. Yes, there are faster cards and it does make a difference in writing the image file to the card. This is especially key if you're taking multiple or burst images.



3. Fresher batteries. Use alkalines at least. But I recommend using high energy batteries designed for digital photography. Varta is a good brand. They are usually sold in camera shops, are long lasting (because they are sold in small quantities) put out alot of energy.



4. Shoot in "sports" modes when you're in situations that require action. Night or available light modes when in night time settings. These presets can help in speeding up your shots, rather than the camera taking a split second to evaluate the conditions of the lighting.



5. Pan with the action. You can create some pretty cool shots by panning with your shot, focusing on your subject. This will create the effect of your subject in sharp contrast to the blurry background.



6. Use a flash - even in day time. This will "freeze" the image and cause your subject to "pop" in the shot. However, flash is only designed for limited range and can dissipate outside of about 20-25 feet unless you're using a zoomable flash.



7. Stick with 100-400 ISO. Going higher will cause more noise/grain in your shots, particularly in darker settings.

Cool Site.

Model 650 is better. It has 12 Mpxls (vs 8), greater sensor (1/1.7 vs 1/2.5= 47% more), vary-angle LCD and only 100g more than 720is.

for comparison, you may want to check out this resource ( imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP...  ). It takes pictures with each and you can compare them side by side.



I was only able to compare the previous models of both - so take this with a grain of salt. Both are near identical in performance, with the A600 series having a slight edge in the macro range. So, assuming that the new models would continue that tradition of being closely linked performance wise, I think that either one will work just fine for you.



Finally, when trying to make a final call, it may just come down to what camera feels good in your hand. Go to a local camera store and check both out side by side, holding them, feeling their center of gravity, the balance. How it sits in your hand. That usually sells me one way or the other.

Mostly because larger liOn batteries are expensive, I think. On the order of $12 a pop. You can purchase rechargeable AAs and get more out of them daisy chained. Also, LiOns can die easily as they get older and the counterfeit issue can cause overheating or even fires. Also, AAs are becoming more powerful as the technology adapts to the growing power needs of electronics.



It isn't wasteful if you get rechargeables.

Well said, Kathryn. BTW - on an interesting note, I recently discovered that a standard 6V battery - like the one's used in an electric camping lantern, actually contains 32 AA batteries. So, for about $7-10 bucks, you can get more AA batteries for less than buying them piecemeal. Now, granted, chances are they're not high energy Titaniums, etc. But if you're on a budget, this is can be a great alternative.

I'm annoyed by having the battery/card door blocked by a tripod, too. I tend to run out of batteries before I run out of card space or need to download. You could always use a cable to download, although that eats up batteries.

It's not the legs that block the battery/card door--it's the actual head of a tripod or monopod getting in the way. You just can't get that door open with a tripod, monopod, or flash bracket screwed onto the camera.

Yeah, that is certainly a design flaw. How about a quick release mount? You may be able to find one that's small enough, although by looking at the bottom view of the camera, it would have to be pretty darn small. Sorry, best I could do.



Oh, BTW - this could be the least of your troubles. Canon has put out a Service Advisory ( usa.canon.com/consumer/cont...  ) on this model you want to be aware of:



We have recently discovered that, under specific shooting conditions a problem may occur in images taken with this product. The details of this problem are described below.



Phenomenon

When shooting with the camera's variangle LCD monitor open under sunny skies, where sunlight shines directly on the exposed back of the camera, problems like the one shown in the image below may occur.



Affected Cameras

Powershot A650 IS digital cameras that have a zero in the fifth digit from the left (xxxx0xxxxx) in the serial number listed on the bottom of the camera are affected.



For more information, click on the link above.

Straight from Canon---release is in the middle of September, but you must check with each on line supplier to see if they have it. There will be releases to different dealers at different times. I can email a list of the dealers. It is too long to include here.

Hi Ilene,



The major differences are as follows:



A650 IS has optical image stabilization, where the A640 did not.

A650 IS has a 12mp sensor to the A640's 10mp.

A650 IS offers ISO1600 as opposed to the A640's ISO800 max.

A650 IS has 6x optical zoom to the A640's 4x.

A650 IS offers a higher resolution LCD screen (173,000px vs. 115,000px).



Hope this helps!

does A650IS have rotating LCD

CCD size?

hi A650 is the advanced version but still then the price os 650A is less compared to A640??Y is it so???

Donal, check out Waterproof Case WP- DC18 (steves-digicams.com/2007_re... 

Is it true that A650 has live image only on its own display and not on a PC monitor? We know that in A640, it was possible to have live image in both ways.