The D90 has HD video. That's worth the extra coin.

IIRC, the D60 has a partial shutter frame size whereas the D80 is a larger shutter frame. You may have trouble using your lenses on the D60.



Go with the D80.

The bottom line is that there will always be a successor on the horizon. So you could wait forever taking that tack. You could wait until January to see what deals you can get during 1) Black Friday (day after thanksgiving) and after CES where new models are announced and prices drop on previous ones.



But to just wait for the next big thing? You'll be waiting forever.

Once again thanks for your advice, James. The D90 has been announced and it looks like it was worth the wait. I clearly will not have to wait until January for it to hit the stores.



Lyle

Once again thanks James, for the great information. Thankfully I will not have to wait that long as the D90 has been announced. I will wait until I can read a review or two though. Novices like myself are lucky to have experienced people like yourself who are willing to take the time to give us advice.



Lyle

Wow, James, I had not considered that. I thought onlt the pro models D200, D300 were full frame models. I'll check into the D60 and see how it reviews. While the 1.5x crop factor is helpful on telephoto it loses ont he wide end. Thanks for the great tip.



Lyle

Tran,



The Nikon D80 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) uses a Nikon F mount type lens. If your older lens is compatible with this mount, then you can use it. If not, some lenses work without auto focus or can be used with an adapter on the newer cameras. Good luck and happy shooting.



Andrew

Have you tried to reset the camera to factory default?

Happy to help, Eric. Thanks for posting it.

Your best bet is to rely on manual for those changes on the fly. Sports mode will prechoose an ISO setting and then choose from a set range of aperture and shutter speed settings.



Going to manual puts you in complete control. You could also rely on either aperture priority or shutter priority which would enable the camera to automatically choose one while you adjust the other.

It can. But it largely depends on your conditions. As for flash, I point to the pros who seldom use a flash when shooting sports pictures. this is mostly because it can interfere with the action. That's why what I would do is use shutter priority. You set the shutter speed on the fly and let the camera do the rest.

In shutter priority, if you select a shutter speed that is too fast for the lens, does the camera automatically change the ISO to compenate or do you have to do that manually as well?

Tracy,



Both cameras have 10.2 MP resolution, the D80 ( digitalcamera-hq.shopping.c...  ) has a slighty faster frames per second rate, and will have more exposure control options with temperature control. It will also let you manually adjust the flash settings. Those are not huge differences, but they are differences. I think the bigger question is how much you want to spend. I have a friend that owns the D40 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) and she loves it. Good luck and happy shooting.



Andrew

Both are great answers, thankyou so much. I am goin with the D80

Unless you've got a bunch of older AF lenses you're trying to reuse with your new Nikon, the lack of drive motor is pretty much a non-issue because almost all the new DX lenses ( nikonimaging.com/global/pro...  ) are AF-S now (especially the VR ones, which are the ones you definitely want).

The manual ( nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/Sp...  ) states that you can start in the camera’s exposure mode to Programmed Auto (P). The Flash should be in TTL mode, which, based on the exposure control information, the camera

automatically controls the flash output level to give the correct exposure.



Manually, Press the MODE button to set the flash mode.

• Display TTL BL on the the LCD panel.

2 Confirm that the main subject is within the flash shooting distance range.



Note, that every time you press the MODE button, the available flash mode icon changes. Refer to “Icons on the LCD panel” (p. 13 of the manual).



Nikon has a Speedlight Techniques Guide ( nikonusa.com/pdf/SB800_tech...  ) you can download which may be of help.

Sure. But you run into the danger of breaking it off the hot shoe when not in use. If it's a 1A Skylight the answer is ALL the time! If not, you should get one anyway. Best insurance policy you can get. I can't tell you how many times I have trashed a skylight filter but saved my lens! If it's a darker polarizer, it's best in very bright days.



But these days, absent the 1A, you don't really need a filter. Everything a filter does can be fixed with something like Photoshop. And better because you don't change the original image permanently like a filter does.

Rechargable batteries are always a good idea. Better for the environment. And although it used to be that they wouldn't last as long as regular disposable batteries, the technology has advanced in the last 20 years.



Because of the high power requirements of a flash, I recommend getting batteries with a higher mAh - like around 2500mAha. Also, you can try this ( batteryspace.com/index.asp?...  ).

Wherever you can find camera filters. Any camera store should have em. Or search online.

Hello Greg , We all wish there was such a lens. But as Your first SLR camera a good choice would be the nikon AF-S DX 18-135 mm lens. It is a fast and quiet lens. you will have the opportunity of closeup photos as well as zoom and any where in between . This lens will be a good indoor as well as outdoor lens choice. Like the rest of us you will always find another lens you must have . But this Is a good choice as a first lens.This lens is about 300.00 list. If you are buying this camera new see if it is available with the lens and at what price. sometimes they will give you a break when you buy them as a set.

HI Greg , I went to mysimon.com and found camera and lens for $ 849.00-$ 1099. I would find out more info. on this dealer,or any dealer that the price seems too low just to be sure. Lenses are going to be the biggest expense with any camera. I like the web site dpreview.com they review lots of cameras. I personally bought the pentax k10d, which on this web site the nikon D80 is one of the cameras used as a comparable in the review. The price was more in my range , plus I had older lenses that will work on this camera.

For what it's worth, I've heard of this issue too, along with many people arguing it and saying that a lot of it depends on where you 'expect' the camera to do the metering:



photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fe...  someone states in that discussion: "The D80 meter favors shadow areas more than highlights. This is the main difference between the D200, which favors highlights. Many people call this a "defect" but it is by design."



Not really answering your question, but an interesting discussion regarding it.

Exactly right. As a darkroom user I couldn't have explained it better myself.

I've read the D80 is better on recording reds and greens than the D200....found it somehwere on the net and I guess it's all realitive.....decisions, decisions!!!

Well that's a religious question, I'm afraid. There's a great treatise on digital vs. film here ( clarkvision.com/imagedetail...  ).



The bottom line is, that there are many factors when it comes to film. Film speed (ISO), being one of them. Aperture settings. Lighting conditions.



I honestly don't think any digital development will be better than film. But the technology has developed to the point where the arguement is really moot. Digital allows you to do much more and it's alot easier more affordable than developing and printing film - having to pay for bad pictures, etc.



In the end, film is an end use technology now. The future is digital. But beware, according to recent surveys, only 20% of digital camera users actually PRINT their pictures!

hello mrs fox

have a look at these photos

flickr.com/photos/jadegordo...  were taken with a panasonic lumix lz7

it is not a digital slr but it has a very good optical stabilization system

Hi Allen,



Nikon D50 or D80 will easily do the job. You will also need two lenses. Example: Sigma 17-70mm 2.8 Macro for Nikon (around $350) and Sigma 10-20mm for Nikon (around $500). The first lens will let you to take pictures of the buildings from outside, also larger rooms inside and macros. The second one allows you to take very wide angle shots inside small rooms and also photograph whole buildings outside from small distance.

In addition you will need software that eliminates all the problems that are caused by wide angle lenses. Example: Image Align Pro (around $100).

For general photography, an 18-135mm nikon lens would be very useful.

This will give an effective 27 - 202.5 mm equiv. FOV on a DX format digital SLR.



If you like to have more zoom power, the AF-S Zoom-Nikkor ED 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF DX VR will be a better one.

Nikon 18-200mm is hailed as the do-it-all lens. The only setback is the price, US$750.



Lastly, for something in between, Nikon 55-200mm at US$ 279 will probably fit most pocket, while giving the zoom power necessary to get closer to the object, it also provide a reasonable wide angle to include a lot of things in a picture.

Hi Catalina.

Advisors have noticed you have not selected an answer yet, if you are back from your vacation we hope you had a great time. Digital advisors on this site like my self take our own personal time and efforts on a volunteer basis to answer questions and help photographers like yourself with advice. If you still need any further advice then just ask in the reply box below and we will be more than happy to respond or if you can return the kindness and select best answer to close the question that would great.



Thank you in advance.

Hi Mike,



These are both very good cameras, and both have very solid feature sets. They're very closely matched in most regards. There are, however, a few differences.



The Canon has an automatic dust removal feature that keeps the CCD clean, a very nice 10MP sensor, and reverse compatibility with all Canon autofocus lenses. Unfortunately, your T70 uses the older FD mount manual lenses, so they won't do you much good with the XTi.



The Nikon ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ), on the other hand, has superior build quality (just feels more solid in your hand--more metal, less plastic), offers spot metering (which the Canon doesn't--you'll have to use your live histogram), and has a brighter, clearer viewfinder.



Frankly, I think you'd be happy with either camera. If you've been happy with Canon products in the past, that might be enough to tip your hand here. You might, however, want to check out this comprehensive side-by-side comparison ( dcviews.com/reviews/Canon-R...  ) of the D80 and XTi. It does a much better job than I could ever do of enumerating the pros and cons of each camera.

Hi Joy,



Of these three cameras, the D80 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) is by far the best rated by pros and users. Of course, it's also the most expensive. For you, however, someone just getting into fully manual photography, I might agree with your choice of the A100 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ). It is probably a better beginner SLR than the Nikon and roughly equivalent with the XTi ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ). Additionally, it has the benefit of in-camera image stabilization, which will work with any compatible AF lens. You can use Minolta AF lenses with the A100, which means that you have a cheap source of new glass.



Hope this helps!

Joy,



Sounds like you got a heck of a deal. Hope it works out well for you. :)

This really comes down to how much you are willing to spend. The Nikon D50 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) is probably the work horse of all DSLRs. It has been around for almost 2 years and people still love it, huge fan base of user suport. It is a great 6.1 MP mid level SLR, but compared to the [url=digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  10.2 MP and advanced up to date features really set it above. But these upgrade are going to cost almost 800 bucks more.



If you are looking to be versatile I would suggest getting the D50 and spending the difference on lenses so you have a options on on safari. I know from experience that you are going to want a Long Prime Lens on safari and for surfing. A nice Zoom (60mm~200mm) lens would be great and incredably versatile too, and even a macro lens for real detailed shoots. As long as you are not planning on printing these stills much bigger than 8x10 you will not see much of a quality difference. And with a few lens you will have the options to get the exact photo you want.



Good luck.

Hi Bernie,



The SLRs most similar to Canon's Rebel XTi ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) are probably:



Sony's Alpha a100 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  )

Pentax's K10D ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  )

Nikon D80 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  )



They're all 10MP cameras, they all come with similar kit lenses, and they're all in the same general price ballpark. Good luck!

I recommend the Nikon D80 by preference.

Both are equally good choices. Both have great lenses and you can grow with both as well. And both can use older lenses. And that's the thing here. If there's one thing that can sway you one way or the other, it's the infamous Nikkor 105mm portrait lens. There's no better lens, ever. And if you can get one, it'll be the best you can get. And I'm a Canon man.

I have been in the professoinal photography business for more than 15 years. To show balance, I use both the D2X and 1D with equal pleasure in my work.

Recently, I was in a toss up between the D80 and 30D for semi-professional, off-work, leisure use. I have toyed around with both the D70s and 30D, before, and they were both equally capable to produce remarkable photos when in the right hands. After some deliberation, I finally decided on the D80 for a number of reasons: First and foremost, Nikon has consistently focused its resources into the field of photography, so their expertise in mechanics and optics should be and is unsurpassed at this level (albeit Leica and the Zeiss). On the contrary, Canon seems to be a follower in this field, despite having caught up fast. Canon is frankly not as focused in this field, despite its agressive marketing tatics to capture a wide fan-base (Red / Gold ring lenses, white lenses, etc. which is simply meaningless to the anyone who knows his lenses). Secondly, the "feel" of the D80 is definitely more comfortable and well-balanced when the camera is held at hand. While it could be generally true that the more solid feeling camera (usually the heavier weighing one) gives a more sturdy and professional grip, I found the lighter D80 to be ideally weighed and more balanced, with a center of gravity appropriately place (lower-center-rear), while the 30D was unncessarily heavy and tended to twist and tilt ones grip forward-right (I can imagine this worsening on heavier lenses). This creates a magnitude of uncomfort once the 30D is used for longer periods. Thirdly is the fact that the Nikkor lenses are more appropriately priced. I am unsure whether this is a marketing tactic; however, I have witnessed consistent price increases for Canon lenses over the past 10 years, without significant improvement towards quality. One point that may affect the decision of buyers towards the Canon is the fact that it is "assembled" in Japan, while the Nikon is "assembled" in Thailand. If there were two versions of the D80, one from Japan for Japanese market and one from Thailand for the rest of the world, then I'd worry. But frankly, when even the discerning Japanese consumers are getting the same product, this becomes a mute point. Nikon will not risk its image and status through offering potentially lower quality products. Your Benz, Porsche or BMW will have many components not made in Germany. Likewise for a 30D that is only assembled in Japan.

Hi, i'm studying photography with the intention of doing wedding photography full time. What would be the best camera to get, initially i wanted the canon 5D but its quite expensive....now its a toss up between the canon 30D or the Nikon D200 - which would you say is the better of the two, also taking into consideration the affordability of lenses.

There's one reason to go Nikon over Canon. The Nikkor Lens. No better lenses in the world.



That being said, I'm a Canon man. Nikon lost my interest with their very slow and bulky autofocus cameras back in the 80s. But their new digitals look pretty good though.

Lighthouse --



If the XTi was too light for you (a toy), you most certainly want the 30D or the D80 (or D200). Opinions about which company is conceptually better at cameras notwithstanding, Nikon and Canon are both real camera makers, and these are all real cameras. If you have any lenses from your old Rebel, then they'll work on the 30D, which would seal the deal for me. If not, then it's a toss up.



As a long-time Canon owner and serious (not professional) photographer, I very much appreciate the solid, strong performance of the 30D predecessor, the 10D which I have owned since it was released in 2004. The metal body, great functionality and speed are all great in the 10D, even by today's standards. The 30D is faster, has an even better image processor (lower noise at high ISO), more MP, a spot meter and a few other things I miss a little on the 10D. So it sounds like a great camera. I have heard similar raves about the 200D from Nikon.



I do think Nikon's glass has a great rep, however you should know they are going through a transition now, putting the focus motor in the camera, where it used to be in the lens (they had it in the lens for backward compatibility with their non-AE/AF lenses from many years ago). This means, I think, that there will be some incompatibilities in their lens line over the next few years. Canon made that switch (much to the ire of Canon owners then) in the early 1980s. So you may have a wider selection of lenses from Canon, although that's mostly speculation.



I would avoid all the other dSLRs, given your experiences so far. While many are fine, the Canon and Nikon offerings are the ones most pros choose, and if you want a solid camera, this is where you should stick. You will NOT be disappointed in either.

Hi all....sorry for the late reply as I have been mostly out of town. The Nikon vs Canon topic will frankly be a never ending debate. Agreed with TomH, you should only stick to one of these two brands. The option of the body is really a short-term commitment, for a life-time hobby, and it depends on your application at the moment of question. If you're a beginner/enthusiast, it'd be hard to justify going beyond the 30D or D80. It'll take you a good year of serious shooting before you can really master all the features both cameras have to offer. This is besides having to learn all the proper shooting techniques. The real decision maker is on the lens, which will be transferrable asset to-and-from bodies of the same make (mostly if you don't decide to step down for the D40 in the future). So you really should be looking at the range of lenses available for a certain make, and the quality, speed, weight, etc of the ones that would apply to your application(s) at the moment of question. I know I haven't answered any questions directly, but it is frankly an internal issue with oneself.

To lighthouse, you asked about shooting indoors (I presume portrait photos). This depends on the distances you will be covering during your indoor shooting. 200mm is obviously great if you need to reach across relatively long distance (e.g. runway models or podium speakers). However, if you are mainly shooting portrait across distances within 2-3 meters, you may even consider a fix-focus 35mm or 50mm f/1.8 or 1.4 lens, which are great for indoors and out-door night photography.

All said, I tend to lean towards Nikon bodies due to my believe in the range and quality of Nikkor lenses. Agreed with DeRuvo.

Lighthouse, go one step further and purchase a 1A skylight filter for that Quantray lens. It'll be the best insurance policy you can buy. I can't tell you how many times I saved a lens from impact damage by trashing that filter.



As for buying a 50mm lens, frankly, I think that's a waste of money. Get the 105mm Nikon instead. And I think that you're covered on the lens for hockey.

I am a real amateur and from this conversationI believe that D80 is way to go. Could you please (lighthouse) tell me which shop you bought it from and what are the steps. THANKS IN ADVANCE.

To pay 1,000 plus for either the 30d or the d80 is foolish, as I have found both for somewhere in the range of $700(shop around online), though this is body only, for the 30d that is UNBEATABLE. The K10d is wonderful but I do not like the choice in lenses. Olympus is also coming out with the e410 and e510, which are options to consider. Canon Nikon Olympus and Pentax. Those are the brands. Canon really lost a few points when they came out with such a flimsy cheap feeling camera as the 400d.



On the subject of lenses for the Nikon id go with the 18-70mm and a nice 50mm, as I take mostly low light shots.



by the way someone mentioned looking at cnet reviews.....don't. Bias bias bias is all I can say about their camera reviews . They are not photographers and many of their statements are down right inaccurate. They rate based solely on how expensive a product is.

Great choice on the D80 lighthouse. If I were you I'd definitely try and get a Nikkor wide angle lens. Either the well built 18-70mm for around $320 or the nice 18-55mm for about $170.

I have a video production company and am just getting into the DSLR market. I have been looking at the D80 and the D200 with their +18-200mm ED DX VR II lens. The longer I look at reviews the more confused I'm getting. Somewhere in this thread I read that if I'm new, then anything past the D80 is not smart. My interests are shooting mountain biking, mostly up close, weddings, nature, and some event photography.

Thanks James...that's how it started. I heard about the Nikon D40 so stopped in to check it out. It felt like a toy. So I tried the D80 and the lens felt cheap...and it was a Nikon. Then I stopped by a different store and held the D200, and fell in love. But it's so expensive and if I add this great lens, the 18-200mm ED DX VR II, which I cannot find to try out, but is available on eBay, will the camera be too heavy? Plus it costs $2200.

Well, I'm not an experienced photographer but have been shooting event video for the past 4 years. I would like to get a camera that has plenty of growing room, and the Nikon D200 with their 18-200 f3.5 VR lens looks like a winning combo.

Tom, is this the lens you want to buy?

photozone.de/8Reviews/lense... 

Read it carefully, they are not much happy with results, though VR is of course great option. If you're not nuch concerned about vignetting abberations and so on then it's great choice. Otherwise they recommend not to use "all-in-one lenses, but try to use a pair of them for different occasions. This should give better results.

I wouldn't buy the 18-200mm lens for shooting mountain biking. You need a faster lens. The Nikon 50mm 1.8D is good it only costs $100 and is a very good lens. I would then by a 12-24mm Tokina, this is very good for landscapes and would also be good for wide shots of mountain bikes coming down the trails. This lens will run you about $500. Then make sure you buy a good filter for both. Then if you want a telephoto I would go with the Nikon 80-200mm with tripod collar. New will run you about $800 used around $600. All of these lenses you can find at you local camera store or on ebay. Hope this helps.

If you decide to go with the Canon 30D i would get the 17-40mm F4 around $600 or the 24-105mm F4 around $700. This is a heavy lens though. For telephoto i would go 70-200mm F4 around $500 or the 70-200mm 2.8 is for $1500. All in all the nikon and canon are pretty close it really just depends how they feel in your hands.

The 50mm 1.8D is a very good lens for portrait and general event photography. If you can spend $1000 bucks on a lens I would go with the Nikon 17-55mm f2.8. Great for everything. If you shoot in low light you want a lens that is f2.8 or lower.

Today I had a chance to shoot a little with a nikon 18-70 mm lens, I think it was f 3.5. It's a great lens for close up shots of mountain bikers. Why does a 17-55 f2.8 cost so much? Is it the glass quality?

I bought the D200 with a 18-70 f3.5 lens in a kit. I wish it was f2.8, but my budget didn't allow. It does a pretty good job of getting a nice wide shot in close for mountain biking jumps. And I'm a novice so it will take me a while to learn the camera, which is a joy to hold in my hands. I charged the battery and took a great shot of my wife, who funded the purchase, and it looked great. This camera is simply spectacular to play with. Now I have to learn it. I have kept all your notes for future purchases. Thanks to all for your advice.

This has been a great thread for me. I too have it boiled down to a D80 or a 30D. I'll be settled on the D80 and I'll hear a whisper 5 fps, metal body , low light ect. Then I'll be getting the 30D for a few days, frankly it's exhausting I can't wait until I finally buy something which I'll probably be doing on Friday. I've held both cameras and like them both although at the time I wasn't seriously considering the 30D due to the extra cost. It's such a big decision as your buying into a system and the decision will be very expensive to reverse down the line. I plan to immerse myself in photography , take classes and hopefully start a career. In this moment I think I'm going with the D80 again I like the lenses 5 year warranty and the prices seem a little more sane. The D80 is also a rather new camera with no replacement on the horizon while the 30D is a little long in the tooth and will probably be replaced soon.

That said I am concerned about the idea the Nikon is changing their lens format accross the line as per the D40x model. If that is true there won't be many new lenses coming out for the D80 in the years to come an what lenses I do invest in won't be compatible with future Nikon bodies. Come to think of it that would be a huge determining factor and would lead me back again to the 30D. Help me please, I'm going around in circles and I'm getting dizzy.

Great forum btw and this thead particular has been helpful in addressing my dilemma. Thanks for any and all feedback. ~ Mike

Awesome. Also try bracketing. That's where you shoot at -1, regular & +1 on your aperture. Note the differences.

Well sorry, Bruin, but it really does depend on what you're going to do with it. Approach should always point the way to what camera you're going to end up with. If point and shoot is what you want, then this camera is overkill. Likewise, if you want to go into a serious hobby, then a prosumer model won't grow with you as much as you'd like.

Tom- What's the link to that deal? I decided on the Nikon D80 and am thinking of buying that lens you just mentioned plus a 50mm non-zoom...what do you think of that setup?

James- do you want to sell your 50mm? ;)

James when you speak of a prosumer I assume your referring to the D80? I'm definately wanting something which will grow with me. To be honest I'd like to make a career out of photography. My intention is to immerse myself, take some classes and learn everything that I can.

Now as to the 50 mm that was what I was going to get, the 30D body and the "fantastic plastic". Until I could save up for a decent lens. In reviewing lenses(photozone) the kit lenses all seem terrible, so I'm at a loss.

Ideally I'd find something that covered the lower to mid range i.e. 17-85, 18-55 the 28-135 IS is available in a kit with the 30D for $1288.00. The cost of the 17-55 2.8 is prohibitive as is the 24-105 2.8L. Basically 1300 maybe 1400 is the most (more actually but) that I can afford right now but I don't feel like that means I have to settle for the XTI/D40.I should just keep saving a get the 5D /24-105L kit...in about a year. lol

What do you recommend?



Oh I learned that I was uninformed regarding the new Nikon lenses with motors and their compatibilty with the D80/D200 bodies with motors.

Mike, I don't think that getting the XTi/40D would be "settling" per se, but then again, I'm not the one who would be using it either. I have a hunch that you're mind is set on the 30D and that's fine. It's a good camera. But frankly, you won't get much mileage out of the 50mm. You'll grow out of it in an afternoon to not too fine a point on it. I think starting out with a 28-135 is a good way to start. But what's the point of buying a great camera if you're going to settle on an inferior lens? Buying a kit with a third party lens is settling much more than going with the RebelXTi, IMHO.



I would advise saving up for a few more months and get the lens you REALLY want. Since you have it as a goal to go Pro, you won't regret being patient and having the right tools.



One last thing. No matter what lens you end up getting, plan on laying out another $25 or so for a 1A Skylight filter. It's a must for protecting your lens elements and is a good, cheap insurance policy. I can't tell you how many times I trashed a 1A filter, but saved my lens from impact damage!

Here's an idea that would allow you to kill two birds with one stone. Many camera stores rent the cameras they sell, and then will deduct the rental price from the sale price if you buy it from them. You could keep saving, and rent both to 1) scratch that photography itch and 2) evaluate each one personally. Do this with the understanding that both rental fees will be applied to the sale price.



Then, when you're ready to purchase the camera, you have a leg up in both experience, and price deductions.

All I can say is, if you feel like you're going to be settling, what will another month or two of waiting while you save up the difference hurt? That's my advice. Be patient. And who knows, maybe the price will drop.

Hi, I'm also buying my first DSLR, after reading reviews of both camera, I think i'm sold with the D80....I was just wondering now which lenses are good, I would like one that would be fast enough to shoot sports and one that is good with night shooting. Also DeRuvo mentioned the 105mm portrait lens from Nikon, is it the "AF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8G IF-ED". Also my friend recommended to me the "Nikkor AF-S 70-300mm F4.5-5.6 VR", how's that? Thanks

everytime i decide on the D80, I change my mind to the D200. All this info is driving me nuts! MAkes me want to use the $ and spend it on a lens on my totally manual fossil Yashica FX103

You have to realize that both Canon and Nikon are wonderful companies. Both make fabulous lenses, and fabulous cameras. They are neck and neck for a reason: both are very good at what they do. There is no "wrong" choice with your camera, there are cameras you will probably like more than others for personal reasons, but all the cameras were put out for top notch shooting. The 30D and the D80 are VERY competent cameras. Both have amazing features, and wonderful image quality in the right hands. The lenses (though you can debate this all you want) are just about equal in most regards. People who have shot Nikon will probably like Nikon lenses, and Canon shooters will enjoy Canon lenses. Don't let biases sway you from either company--Nikon and Canon are old rivals who compete for the same ground. And none of them are toys. All of them were made to a standard that very few companies can match.

There are many upsides to certain cameras; the huge sensor on the 30D may influence your purchase, or the wonderful Nikkor lenses available with the D80. Perhaps you have had a camera before from one of them--obviously some of the lenses can be used on a future purchased camera. There are variables to each purchase, and very well there should be.

But the best thing you can do is try them out. Whether from a friend or family member, or even for a brief time at a store, it is DEFINITELY worth your time to get a feel of the camera before your purchase. NEVER purchase blind, you will get surprises you didn't ask for.

Realize your options and make your favorite pick. All in all, you will find what you like for a reason that suits you.

I decided myself for Nikon D80 with Tamron 17-50 2.8 lens. What would you say about that 3rd party lens? It costs 450$ and seems to be a nice choice, as of photozone and some others.

Some of the above thread suggests that the 18-200 VR lens is not perfect, but I wish I had it. Read Rockwell's article. He says that he uses it and a very wide angle Tokina, and that's it. It has some barrel distortion at the close end and maybe a little edge distortion at the long end, and it's a little pricey, as in $700 or $800, but it's worth a look. Wish I'd gotten it.

Well the beauty of Nikon is that they have always kept their lenses in the loop and kept them downward compatible. So you shouldn't have any trouble with just about any Nikon lens.



As for the Rebel XTi, it's a worthy alternative.

Overall, which brand is more expensive? canon or nikon? in terms of lenses, speedlights, bodies, accessories, etc.....

also how are sigma lenses?

Scott, I really don't think you'll have a problem. Nikon has always kept their cameras downward compatible with their lenses for the very reason that they understand their strength is their glass. Worst case? You may lose some auto functions. But I highly doubt that.

You're welcome :)

Rob, at this point, when trying to make a final call, it may just come down to what camera feels good in your hand. Go to a local camera store and check both out side by side, holding them, feeling their center of gravity, the balance. How it sits in your hand. That usually sells me one way or the other.



You could also consider renting a model or two. Most smaller camera companies will rent you a camera for a day or weekend and will even apply the rental price to the camera if you buy it from them.

OK, on the heels of good advice, I wandered by the local Best Buy and gripped some camera.



XTi is out. Just doesn't feel right. I'm sure it takes good pictures but it doesn't feel right for me.



D80 has a nice feel. I like it. I like the layout, the menu system. Looks good, feel comfortable with it.



30D feels like I could kill someone with it, properly grasped and swung. It was dead so I couldn't play with menus but it certainly has a nice feel in my hand.



I do have Canon glass, but it's only about $200 worth, tops.



So 2 slightly less subjective questions based on reading today:



(1) in terms of megapixels and image quality, how does the 30D compare to the D80? I know the 30D is only 8.2 but I don't know if that means any real meaningful compromise in image. If you were buying solely on image quality and electronics (AF points, metering, etc.) is there a big advantage to one or the other? I've got them both in a spreadsheet and they look awfully close but I may have missed something.



(2) can either camera put RAW into Photoshop without 3rd party software? If I have to buy a piece of software to get the RAW from one or the other, that's a consideration. I work in advertising and while I don't need to shoot billboard size, I do want maximum flexibility going into CS3.



Thanks again.

See Rob? Often just holding it helps whittle down the list.

I have had a Canon EOS since 1987. I upgraded to an EOS digital Rebel about 4 years ago when a $5 internal rubber piece went. It was going to cost $250+ in labor to repair. Since all of my lenses fit on the new EOS, it I felt it was a wise choice. I currently have two lenses a 18-55 and a 75 - 300. I am looking at upgrading the camera again. This time I am looking at the 30D with a 28-135 lens.



Other than family gatherings, most of my photos are of my son's sports. He does Cross Country running and biking (tour bike races). I find that I am missing shots (mostly during the bike races) because the camera is not fast enough. It sounds like the 30D shutter speed will solve this problem. (I currently use a SanDisk Extreme III 2.0 GB CF). Since my lenses were purchased prior to the digital SLR, could this also be part of my problem? Do I need to worry about upgrading my lenses for the digital cameras?



Thanks

Hey guys, i'm thinking of buying a wide angle lens for my D80, any good recommendation? a friend of mine suggested the Tokina 12-24mm and the store suggested the Sigma 10-20mm

Yeah I was thinking about the Nikon 12-24mm but it is so expensive so I think i'll get the Tokina one, thanks

How does the D80 and the 30D compare with how their sensors

are cleaned.Also,does it matter that the D80 flash sy speed is 200?

I have only used a point and shoot digital so this is a new world

to me.I have used my minolta x700 for many years so I do know how

to shoot.I am just still analog in this digital world.Thanks to everyone

in this blog you have given me alot to think about.

well, to be honest it is a hard decision to choose between Nikon or Canon. one thing I know for sure that both camera producers have an outstanding record. I've used Canon for a long time, and tried Nikon D80 recently, I use my Nikon a lot. both has the same image quality ... one thing that I like a lot from Nikon is the balance design and also the big bright viewfinder. I use 18-200 VR lenses and I think that this is an excellent lens, it covers all your needs.

Thank you both so much for your response....I am probably going with the nikon with the 18-200 VR lens! I just don't want to outgrow the Nikon....By outgrow I mean technology. I need the latest but where I am starting over I hope to make the right decision. I love Nikons performance, but after reading a professional review on it vs the Rebel XTi it had a flaw that I was concerned with. The dust seals were not as tight as would be expected from a Nikon product. This is a concern but not the only factor. Does the 40D use a beter seal and body construction....I really do use my Camera almost daily and dust is a real concern. What are you thoughs on the housing Armor they make for these cameras are they worth it and do they inhibit the performance of the camera? Thank you both so so so much again this is really helping me!!

Agree with you James ... but please consider 40D as well .. it has better body construction.

A lot of the time I do Manual....but it is nice to have the option of a nice DSLR to shoot AF because My GF likes to mess around with it too!! I am going to buy the 40D for a couple of reasons....1st it will get me more motivated to expand my skill and hone my ability. 2nd it has room to grow and become a more avid photographer despite not being a professional!! Thank you for all of your feedback....I needed to hear from others before I bit the bullet and changed camera platforms! Thanks Again!!

Can anyone tell me how to choose which tripod and tripod head to get? thanks

hi James, thanks for all the help, I actually have another question, I was thinking of buying a macro lens and looking into the Nikon 105mm f/2.8 lens, i read the reviews in www.kenrockwell.com and he said that he preferred the non VR model which as of now i can only see used in Ebay, what do you think? VR or non VR edition? thanks

Yeah i was thinking that the VR system will be handy if i end up using it as a short telephoto, but at the kenrockwell site, he said that the autofocusing on the VR model is not reliable, is that true? I kinda want to buy a new one but since the non VR model is old they only have used ones so then I'd have to buy it from Ebay and I don't know how reliable that will be, it might come to be all scratched up.....any suggestion?

do you by chance know a place where I can get the second hand 105mm non VR model? its really hard to come by now, even on ebay there isn't much available. There are always bad and good reviews for everything which makes it hard to decide haha. So if the difference between the two lens are very minor/slight then I guess buying the VR model would be good too although its so much more expensive. I like in Asia right now, unfortunately I don't have the luxury of trying out lenses, here in Asia you either buy it or not, you can't take it out to try, oh well, thanks James

Thanks lighthouse, I'm actually trying to find the older model, the non VR one, i actually found some on ebay and also on Adorama, i might just get the one from Adorama since I heard that they are very reliable. I'm still deciding whether or not to get the 50mm f/1.4 or 1.8, i'm not sure if there is a really big difference between them, all i know is that the price is really different hehe.

Ok :-} Thanks again James.



Good luck Alex. If you end up getting the 108mm, please let me know how it is.. /thanks.

I am a complete newbie and I am wanting to discover the wonderful world of photography, with all of it's possibilties artistically and possibly career wise. I am trying to decide between the d80, d200, & the 30d. After reading the posts, I'm leaning towards the Nikon d80. By being a newbie, I'm a little concerned about the dust issue. Is this a big concern? Also, I am very limited as far as funds are concerned so I was thinking of getting the NIKKOR 18-200 lense because I read several times that it would cover just about everything. Please help me in deciding the best course for me.

I have an old nikon n80 and it looks like my 2 lens are a 28-80mm and an 75-300mm. I am considering coming into the future and purchasing the nikon d80 and get rid of film altogether. My question is.... will those 2 lens work w/ the new D80?

Experts, great thread. I am going on a safari in africa in December. Not used an SLR for nearly 10 years (used to get one free to shoot tennis at Wimbledon in the day of film and that was always a Nikkon).



My friend has a D80 with the 18-200mm lens + UV filter. Is ths lens the best for shooting (not literally of course) big game in the morning?



Mike

thanks james - i live in Indonesia but we do have a safari park here as well!!

Ok I am in this same Canon/Nikon predicament..I have never shot professionally(and am honestly not the most technically sound) but am planning on pursuing photo as a career as I have been kidding myself working in advertising( a tune i'm sure many of you know) and all I do is take pictures.Image quality is my biggest deal. Since many of my questions have been answered by previous threads..consider this:



CanonEOS 40D w.28-135 lens- $1499.99

Nikon D80 w/ 18-135mm lens--$1149.88



Thoughts?

Ok when I say i'm new to this (digital) i mean really new...so please go easy because this may seem like a stupid question...



D80 - 10.2mega pixles

30D - 8.2mega pixles



Does this really make much difference?

Hello, I have been reading reviews and have made a couple trips to the camera store learning about Canon and Nikon DSLR's. I have found I am in the same position as Tom was in, unable to make a clear decision on which camera to buy. First I looked at the Canon Rebel XTI but found that the compact body was hard for my large hands to hold onto. I can just see an accident waiting to happen with this camera when it is dropped. I am looking at the D80 and D200 Nikon cameras and the Canon 40D. I like the larger feel of the bodies of these cameras plus the fact that the bodies are metal and not plastic on the D200 Nikon and the Canon 40d. It scares me to invest $700.00 in this lens and $900 to $1300.00 plus for a camera body and then find out that Nikon is headed towards changing the motors to the camera body. Is this true? I am really leaning toward the Canon 40d but many have told me the Nikkor lenses are supreme over Canon lenses and that Nikon seems to be a better camera. My uses for this new camera would be lots of closeups of pottery usually shot inside in a variety of light settings including ultraviolet light, overhead lamps, low light situations etc. I have been told that a very good lens from Nikon is the 18-200mm lens but after reading some confusing reviews on this lense, the major problem seems to be the quality of the materials it is made of. I am new to photography and would like any input someone might have to help make this decision easier. Thanks.

I agree, Bamn!. Sometimes discussions like this come down to almost religious fervor when both, or either, can work rqually well. But I have to tell you this. As a Canon fan, if I could get ahold of one of those old 105mm nikkors, that would tip the scale for me in favor of the D80/D200.

I am also looking at the Nikon D80 with the 18-200mm VR Nikkor lens. The price of the D80 at $900 and the price of the 18-200mm VR lens at $800 is pushing my wallet to its max, and I still need a memory card, flash, filter, monopod, trypod,........ So I am looking at the New Tamron 18-250mm for $500. I know it is not a VR lens but is the $300 worth it. Is the quality of the Tamron lenses good, bad, or is there a big difference from the Tamron, Sigma, Promaster to the Nikkor lenses. Also to save some money I am looking at the package deal D80 and Nikkor 18-135mm non VR lens at a price of $1200 is this better then the Tamron option, or is the bigger range a better way to go.



I really need some help with which lens to pick, and if the nonNikkor lens are any good.



Thanks for any help at all.

Canon EOS 30D 8.2MP Digital SLR Camera with EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Standard Zoom Lens @ $1280

Nikon D80 10.2MP Digital SLR Camera Kit with 18-135mm AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens @ $1000

Nikon D40x 10.2MP Digital SLR Camera with 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens @ $929



I am planning to buy my first dslr. Photography is my hobby and I generally do street photos, cityscapes and I prefer b/w shooting a lot.

Would prefer an all-in-one lens to start off with as I'm practically on a shoe-string budget.

Need advice as I'm simply overwhelmed by the huge array of reviews I've been reading for the better part of last month!!

I leave the decision to you guys...please help narrow down within a week's time.

Hello Folks, stuck with Canon 30D vs Nikon D80....

I started out with Canon EOS 400D aka XTi vs Nikon D80. I've been shooting photos for long, but only with point-n-shoot cameras.

Given D80 has pentaprism viewfinder, spot metering and better ergonomics compared to XTi, I was more inclined for D80. But, I went back and had a look at Canon 30D.

Interestingly price for D80 ($730) vs D30 ($800) is very comparable (body only, as per B&H photo)



Given I don't own any lens now, what tradeoffs would I be making if I choose one over the other.

For now, I'm more oriented towards Canon for it's Magnesium Alloy body compared to D80's high grade plastic, faster 5fps continuous, CMOS sensor (=>better pictures at higher ISOs), better choice of post-processing software.



Actually this should be in a separate thread, but...

Lenses: No matter what body I choose, I plan to buy Tamron 18-200mm over kit-lenses. My justification for this is that this lens would allow me experiment more (meaning higher range of focal lengths) and would serve as a good starter all-in-one lens.

As an expert, what is your take on that?



P.S. This post is NOT intended to evoke the Nikon vs Canon ire. Just expecting some genuine feedback that would help me understand tradeoffs.

> Well, if you're hard on your equipment, then I'd go with the 30D.

Actually, I'm a careful handler, but doesn't hurt to know body could take some beating :)



>The faster burst mode is a plus if you shoot action shots more.

Yes, since I would love to have an all rounder body, good to have this feature.

I don't photograph for living, and so, can't afford many bodies, at least to start with.



>As for "post-processing software" that's a wash as the best is Photoshop/Photoshop Elements, anyway. A free option is Picasa from Google. It's a great tool for managing your photographs, cleaning up red eye, and even printing them.

Noted!



>Now to lenses, have you taken a look at the Sigma varieties?

No, actually I only looked Tamron.



>They are running neck and neck with Canon/Nikon lenses of late and some, according to Photography magazine and testimonies on this board, are down right superior.

Are you talking about 18-200mm in particular? If so, then the prices are exactly the same on B&H photo.

And in one review I read, they perform equally well. If you are talking about long run other lenses,

I definitely need to look at more lenses.



>An all in one lens is ideal just starting out.

Yes, that's the goal, to get started. And also for occasions where changing lenses would be clumsy

or not favorable.



>Just do yourself a favor and buy a 1A Skylight filter for it. Reason being? Insurance. They will take any impact damage and spare your lens. I can't tell you many times I have thrashed a 1A filter and saved my camera lens. It's well worth the $20 or so, believe me.

Thanks a ton for that one James. Since I'm just starting with DSLR, I didn't know this was so important.

I'll definitely add it to my must-have list and buy it off along with the lens.

Zooming for landscapes? Usually one wants a wide angle for that purpose. Nikon does make lenses for ranges from 300mm-600mm ( nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Niko...  ). But just remember, the longer the focal length, the greater the possibility of camera shake and the need for a faster "F" stop and either a mono or tripod. At at larger than 200mm, affordable is seldom in the equation.

Well that depends on how much of a shutter bug you are. Personally, I think that 40Gb is more than enough. Even if you toss in videos you plan to keep. Sure, that extra 80 would be great to have, but I'm betting you could put all your pictures on the 40GB and still have room left over for video.

50mm lenses have their place, sure, but they are incredibly limited. I don't think you want a fish-eye as they distort the image to look like you're viewing life through a viewing port in your front door. I hold that a zoom that goes from say 18-105 will give you about 75% of what you're doing. It'll give you wide angles for group shots and landscapes, but also a nice portrait capability. But if you can't get close enough to get a good picture (as some ceremonies won't allow it) then you may want to look at a longer lens like an 18-200 or there abouts. Sigma makes some great ones that are affordable and are nearly as good as the name brands (according to recent Popular Photography reviews).

hi everyone, I'm planning to watch the Macau Grand Prix, I currently have a 18-200mm lens, is that good enough to use or can anyone suggest a better one? thanks

thanks for the quick response, what lens would you recommend though? decent price nothing too expensive, i was looking into the 80-400 is that any good? or should i just stick to my 18-200?

I'm new to SLR photography. Recently started with a D70 and a sigma 10-20 wide angle lens for real estate photography. The D70 has been dropped and the switch on the front of the camera got broken, now it won't work on auto. Manual only....... SO, I'm considering upgrading the camera body to either a D80 or a D200. Will my lens, batteries, Speedlight SB-600 all fit on the camera's I am considering? Thanks in advance!

hey James, regarding the macau grand prix that i mentioned before, do you think the 80-200 f/2.8 would work better? cause i went wakeboarding this weekend and I used my 18-200 to take photos and more than half of them were blurry, do you think the 80-200 would work better? thanks

no when i was taking wakeboarding photos i was sitting in the speed boat, i had the shutter speed on 1/100 i believe, i had some good ones but a bunch of blurry ones, thats why i was looking into the 80-200 or the 70-200, one final question, i know that the 70-200 works with tele-converters, does the 80-200?

ill give that a try thanks James

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I'd be looking at SLRs ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) for this purpose. That way, depending on what you are shooting, manual settings will enable you to maximize your photo options. It'll be important to light your subject correctly and not rely on the flash as they can create hotspots all by themselves.



I'm partial to Canon's Digital Rebel XTI ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) or the 30D ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ). Two very good cameras. Secondly would be Nikon's D80 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) because Nikkor portrait lenses are the finest in the business.



Pricey, I know. But if this is your business, it will pay to invest in the equipment that gets just the shot you want.

As long as the mount is the same, they should work, but only in manual mode.

Jan,



With the dSLR cameras, you can only get the IS in the lenses (for now). I'm sure they will come up with a way to build it into the SLR body in the future though.



Andrew

Jan,



I would say no on this. Nikon makes great lenses and if you have kept them clean and didn't see issues with them previously, you should be able to enjoy them well into the future.



Andrew

High end cameras currently build the IS into the lenses -- Nikon uses the term VR -- Vibration Reduction. You get higher quality images with it in the lens rather than the body, plus a greater range of effectiveness -- up to four stops, rather than an average of about 2 stops when it's in the camera, where effectiveness varies depending on the length of the lens. The down side is that it makes lenses more expensive. But at this level, image quallity takes precedence, so I doubt you'll see it in DSLR camera bodies from Nikon.

Well have a low shutter speed means that the shutter closes more slowly allowing light to be received by the sensor longer. This creates a blur affect if it is a low light situation or the camera is not kept steady. If you want to get some one running and be able to "see" the motion, aka motion blur, then you want to use a low shutter speed, hopefully it won't be too bright out. Fast shutter speed will capture "quickly" meaning it needs a lot of night to work well. This way your running person will look totally still, no motion blur, but light is needed, hard to do from the stands or low light arenas. Tripod recommended. Does this answer your question?

Hi, I noticed that you haven't marked any replies as the "best answer." Are you still looking for an answer? If so, I recommend you re-submit it on digitalcamera-hq.com  so it will have a better chance of being noticed. These days it looks like most questions are being answered within a few days. Good luck!

At 1/4000 of a second, you can stop a bullet. Seriously. 1/8000 is there simply to extend the range, say, if you want to be wide open at f/2.0 on a bright sunny day. But it has no additional effect in stopping action in sports photography.



For your second question, flash photography, you need to consider two sources of light. One is ambient light, (light other than your flash in the area), and the other is the key light, which in this case would be your flash. It's true that a flash "pop" is so quick that it will effectively stop action just like a fast shutter speed would, but in these cases you must consider how much of the final light in the scene is ambient and how much is key. So, if your flash is 90% of the light in the scene, it's going to freeze action. If your flash is 50% and the ambient light is contributing 50%, then you could see blurring due to the subject moving and/or the camera movement.



There are lots of things to consider. A flash like the SB800 is probably good only to about 30 feet. After that, it's really ineffective. You also have to account for any focus issues. Sports/action photography is not simple, it takes practice. A good sports photographer is like a good hunter... they need to know what they're doing, they need to concentrate, use good technique, etc., all that adds up to the end result.



Hope that helps!

No answer, but I do have several older Nikkor lenses (for old Photomic) which I would like to know if they can be adapted to the D80.

After just recieving this as a gift I did read in the owners manual that yes they are if used in the manual not AF position.

When I bought 6 months ago, I waffled between the D50 and the XT, and picked the D50 because it seemed like there was little to choose between the cameras, and the Nikon was cheaper. I think you have the same thing with the D80 and the XTi, except that the Canon is now cheaper. One possible difference maker would be memory cards, another would be lenses. Nikon has a great 18-200 with VR (although you have to wait to get one due to popularity) that is a great combo of features and price. Canon has some outstanding lenses, but none that I know of that compete directly with this particular Nikon. For memory, the Canon uses CF which is a better design in my opinion (no 2GB limit like SD, which was recently addressed with SDHC) and I think CF is still cheaper per MB than SD.

No camera responds instantly, but some respond much faster than others. To get the absolute fastest response, you'd have to spend a lot of money on a DSLR like the Nikon D80 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ), which has a shutter lag of something crazy like 80 milliseconds.



But in the realm of point and shoot, the new Sony Cybershots are fast, among others. Here is a chart that shows lag time for many popular cameras; this might help you:

impulseadventure.com/photo/... 

Ivan,



The Nikon D50 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) and the Nikon D80 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) do use the same lenses. In fact, all of Nikon's digital SLR cameras can use the same lenses. They have a PDF format spec sheet to compare these cameras and lenses here ( nikonusa.com/fileuploads/pd...  ).

The Nikon D80 is a great semi-professional camera. It is very compact for a SLR camera especially with the features it provides - weighting in at 1.5lb (with batteries). It does have the classic pro body design that I feel most people find very comfortable.



The Canon 400D is very similar in size and shape - a bit lighter at 1.2lb (with batteries). This really is the state of the art camera. With the nine-point auto focusing feature it is much easier to take quick point and shoot type pictures. In addition it has all the standard manual functions that make it a great top of the line semi-pro camera.



I would say go with the Canon 400D especially if you think you can get a good price on those Nikon lens. But they are both well built cameras and if the price isn't right on selling those lens then the Nikon D80 would make a lot of sense.

The Canon 400D seems very nice on paper and I was tempted to buy one through the Internet based on what I had read.But, thank goodness, I decided to visit my local camera shop to try it for size.

After holding it for 10minutes or so I had an ache in my wrist.

No doubt an excellent performer but who would want to use it if discomfort results - it would have been wasted money for me. The Nikon D80 felt great in the hand; I will save a little longer.

Lesson: Read about them but try them for size also

just how many megapixles are these camera's going to go up to, I'm looking at the d80, with 10.1 megapixles, they dont last as long as the slr camera's by a long shot. So what camera has the most megapixles, and is the best made camera, does anyone know. thank you Tom

Todd -

I have a Canon 10D, which has since been upgraded twice, now at the Canon EOS 30D ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ). This is an outstanding camera. I am not biased toward Canon or Nikon SLRs (though Canon's point-and-shoot cameras are consistently rated higher than Nikon's).

I always avail myself of the opportunity to try out other cameras, and in the last few weeks have tried the Nikon d80 with the kit lens ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ) and the Nikon d200 ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ). A friend has the very popular Canon 350D ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  ), or the Canon XTi 400D ( digitalcamera-hq.com/digita...  )

Based on everything I can see, and have read, the Nikon d200 is pretty much equivalent to the Canon 30D. The Nikon d80 is pretty much equivalent to the Canon 350D or 400D. There are subtle differences, and in professional reviews these have occasionally favored Canon's offerings, especially since Canon has beat Nikon to market by a 6 to 12 month lead in the past, so Canon gets the jump on press. The main differences between the more expensive d200 and 30D is that they are more solid cameras; this means they are heavier, but also more durable and a bit more weather resistant. Many professionals use these cameras because of these features.

But they are also bigger and heavier than their less expensive counterparts, the d80 and the 400D. I believe the internal mechanics and electronics are the same for a given brand, although some fancier features may not be available through the menus on the lower-end offerings.

All are simply outstanding, superb cameras, in my humble opinion. There are good options for lenses from both Canon and Nikon, and other companies like Sigma, Tokina and others make compatible lenses. Sony and Pentax also both recently released the Alpha a100 and K100D respectively. While these cameras don't have a long track record, they do have image stabilization built in to the image sensor, meaning it is not necessary to buy IS lenses. If you are buying all new glass, this might be something to consider.

As for a lens, I would consider getting two; all options have a lens in the 18-55mm range, which is a reasonable range for indoor shooting. I had a 28-200 lens for my Canon -- it wasn't the best quality lens and was rather large, and also didn't have IS. I replaced it with a 70-300mm IS plus a 14-55mm (or something). The two together work very well for me. If you want to go with one lens, I am sure the 18-200 is fine, but I have to say, I really love the image stabilization and the extra 100mm tele. And 18mm seems like a wide angle, but there are thing you
can do at 14mm that 18mm is just not wide enough for. Two lenses is certainly more expensive, but you might want to see how the inexpensive 18-55 lens does for you and go for a nice telephoto zoom with image stabilization once your wallet recovers :-)

Tom